Joined: 13/06/2009
Posts: 42
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A new blog on here talking about Seaman's Books got me thinking. Here in the US, they USCG got rid the books around 1995 I believe. So, if you are American crew, sailing on a Foreign Flagged vessel, with only your USCG papers, how do you record you seatime? Do you get seatime letters from the company, ship or owner on letterhead, or do you use the printable Discharge papers from the website? Do you use a Seaman Book from another country and does the USCG accept that?
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Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1008
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A signed letter from the captain or management of the vessel on a letterhead (notorized if not on letterhead) works. You can use a signed and stamped book or discharge slips. Basically, it's whatever the OCMI at the REC you are applying to wants to accept, and they want to accept more than they want to deny. If it is legitimate time and denied, you can protest it to the Commandant for final decission. I've even had hand written letters on an owners personal stationary be accepted with no questions asked.
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Download sea service form from the USCG
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Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 9
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Andy, Anonymous is correct. You can find the USCG Sea Service form at http://www.uscg.mil/forms/cg/CG_719S.pdf. You may run into some significant problems and challenges if you don't use this form and don't have this form signed. If you want to find out more or have any questions on this or other USCG requirements you can call USCG National Maritime Center 888-427-5662. They are the ones that will, in the long run, review your applications for ratings. USCG does not waiver from they procedures so I would check everything with them.
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Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1008
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Richard wrote: Andy, Anonymous is correct. You can find the USCG Sea Service form at http://www.uscg.mil/forms/cg/CG_719S.pdf. You may run into some significant problems and challenges if you don't use this form and don't have this form signed. If you want to find out more or have any questions on this or other USCG requirements you can call USCG National Maritime Center 888-427-5662. They are the ones that will, in the long run, review your applications for ratings. USCG does not waiver from they procedures so I would check everything with them.
I'd suggest they check with the REC that'll be handling their file, there seems to be some differentiation between them, and even as OCMIs at the RECs change. At least that's what I've noticed in 20 years of dealing with them across 4 different RECs. The Sea Service letters are good for handling sea time on your own vessels, but every applicant I've signed them off for have been sent back to me to get a letter, either notarized or on the ships letterhead, stating the O.N., tonnage and attesting to their service time, range of dates and position. Anymore, I just give them the letter and sign off their form. The letter is never denied and seems to be the prefered way of doing things, especially with initial applications.
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I have been in license renewal for the past 7 months. The USCG will not accept the small vessel sea service form if the vessel is over 200 tons. It does not say that on the form but you will find it in the CFRs. USCG wants company or yacht letterhead, signed by the captain or Owner and it better have all of the yacht's information. BTW, a US citizen can record seatime in a Seaman's Book issued from the flag of the yacht's port of registration but the Seaman's Book is only for your personal record and to prove you are a professional mariner. USCG or MCA will not accept copies of pages from a book as they require discharge letters or sea service forms to document seatime. It is your job to document seatime, not the captain's. Get the letter or forms signed before you leave the yacht.
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Does the USCG accept the PYA record book? Anyone know?
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Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1008
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Anonymous wrote: Does the USCG accept the PYA record book? Anyone know?
It's up to the OCMI at the REC you're applying to, that's why I say check with them, you'll have to present it to them, no copies (they'll make their own if they accept it). If it has the ships stamp with the official number & tonnage, signature of the master, dates onboard and days at sea and route(s) sailed, there is a good chance they will accept it especially for renewals. For initial licenses, they can be a bit more picky, so I would back up as many book entries with letters or USCG form discharge slips as I could. If you can't reach one or two captains/owners for letters, they may be more understanding than if you don't have any. Be prepared that they may ask you for an extra character reference letter if they take the book for some of your time. They have a lot of leeway both directions on what they will and won't accept. Some RECs are easy to deal with, some are a PITA. On your initial, be ready to be given a bit of a runaround. At my 4th time at the Long Beach REC for my initial (20 years ago, you had to test for any license at the REC, no "School Administered Tests" back then, but it was all free as well) and being sent again for "One more thing" I said "Then that's it right? I bring you this one more thing and you give me my test date, right?" She said yes, and later that day I had my test date. I suspect that that may have been a test in and of itself because everybody got sent after extra stuff. All my renewals and upgrades since then have been completely straight forward.
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Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 271
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This document is a little old (1999) but quite comprehensive (and simpler than reading the CFR's ;o)). See page 1-10. http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16000_8B.pdf On another thread, someone asked about credit for time served while in the yard. The consensus seemed to be that it did not count. This item from the above document seems to indicate otherwise.
Service On Vessels Other Than Underway. 46 CFR 10.213(c) discusses the application of a 25% credit factor for periods of assignment to vessels at times other than underway. Creditable sea service for this category applies to vessels, whose sea service has not been previously used, that spend the vast majority of their time moored. An example, would be a submarine tender or a vessel undergoing an extended shipyard visit. The vessel status would not be reflected on the Record of Sea Service but might be established during the evaluator's interview of the applicant. Rod
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Joined: 27/06/2009
Posts: 2
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well written"
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Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1008
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rodsteel wrote: This document is a little old (1999) but quite comprehensive (and simpler than reading the CFR's ;o)). See page 1-10. http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16000_8B.pdf On another thread, someone asked about credit for time served while in the yard. The consensus seemed to be that it did not count. This item from the above document seems to indicate otherwise.
Service On Vessels Other Than Underway. 46 CFR 10.213(c) discusses the application of a 25% credit factor for periods of assignment to vessels at times other than underway. Creditable sea service for this category applies to vessels, whose sea service has not been previously used, that spend the vast majority of their time moored. An example, would be a submarine tender or a vessel undergoing an extended shipyard visit. The vessel status would not be reflected on the Record of Sea Service but might be established during the evaluator's interview of the applicant. Rod
Current 46 CFR title 10.213(c) 10.213 Sea service as a member of the Armed Forces of the United States and on vessels owned by the United States as qualifying experience. (c) In addition to underway service, members of the Armed Forces may
obtain creditable service for periods of assignment to vessels at times
other than underway, such as in port, at anchor, or in training.
Normally, a 25% factor is applied to these time periods. This experience
can be equated with general shipboard familiarity, training, ship's business, and other
related duties. Note that that only counts for military service. What you were probably looking for was this: TITLE 46--SHIPPING
CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
PART 10_LICENSING OF MARITIME PERSONNEL--Table of Contents
Subpart B_General Requirements for All Licenses and Certificates of
Registry
Sec. 10.211 Creditable service and equivalents for licensing purposes.
(a) Sea service may be documented for licensing purposes in various
forms such as certificates of discharge, pilotage service and billing
forms, and letters or other official documents from marine companies
signed by appropriate officials or licensed masters. For service on
vessels of under 200 gross tons, owners of vessels may attest to their
own service; however, those who do not own a vessel must obtain letters
or other evidence from licensed personnel or the owners of the vessels
listed. The documentary evidence produced by the applicant must contain
the amount and nature (e.g. chief mate. assistant engineer, etc.) of the
applicant's experience, the vessel name, gross tonnage, shaft horsepower
and official numbers, the routes upon which the experience was acquired,
and approximate dates of service.
(b) Port engineer, shipyard superintendent experience, instructor
service, or similar related service may be creditable for a maximum of
six months of service for raise of grade of an engineer or deck license,
as appropriate, using the following:
(1) Port engineer or shipyard superintendent experience is
creditable on a three-for-one basis for a raise of grade.
[[Page 134]]
(Twelve months of experience equals four months of creditable service.)
(2) Service as a bona fide instructor at a school of navigation or
marine engineering is creditable on a two-for-one basis for a raise of
grade. (Twelve months of experience equals six months of creditable
service).
(c) Service on mobile offshore drilling units is creditable for
raise of grade of license. Evidence of one year's service as mate or
equivalent while holding a license as third mate, or as engineering
officer of the watch or equivalent while holding a license as third
assistant engineer, is acceptable for a raise of grade to second mate or
second assistant engineer, respectively; however, any subsequent raises
of grade of unlimited, nonrestricted licenses must include a minimum of
six months of service on conventional vessels.
(d) Service on a Dual Mode Integrated Tug Barge (ITB) unit is
creditable for original or raise of grade of any deck licenses. Service
on a Dual Mode ITB with an aggregate tonnage of over 1600 gross tons is
creditable on a two-for-one basis (two days experience equals one day of
creditable service) for up to 50 percent of the total service on vessels
over 1600 gross tons required for an unlimited license. The remaining
required service on vessels of over 1600 gross tons must be obtained on
conventional vessels or Push Mode ITBs.
(e) Other experience in a marine related area, other than at sea, or
sea service performed on unique vessels, will be evaluated by the OCMI
and forwarded to the Commandant for a determination of equivalence to
traditional service.
[CGD 81-059, 52 FR 38623, Oct. 16, 1987, as amended at 54 FR 135, Jan.
4, 1989] You can find the answer to your licensing questions here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_08/46cfr10_08.html although the info is a year out of date by the time they put it on the internet. Your Public Library should have the current CFRs and any updates will be posted in The Federal Register.
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