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Do owners really care about crew wellbeing?
Duplicity
Posted: Monday, November 2, 2009 10:25 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


I recently took a job without a written contract and have lamented this decision ever since because this particular employer does not believe in weekends and squeezes every ounce of effort from crew. We consistently work long hours and adhere to seven week, start at 7am have inconsistent breaks during the day and all work until the Captain feels fit to release the team. Crew vacation is randomly allocated and each crew member pays for flights, nobody can leave or on a weekend and must return back to the boat for Monday start time. We are regularly sniped and verbally reprimanded by the Captain and Owner, told to move faster and are forever reminded of approaching deadlines. A verbal promise for employment longevity and stability is what brought me to this yacht and I guess more research should have been done before joining the yacht in the med. Don’t make the same mistake I did because the deceptive method of operation this owner utilizes will burn you out and forever blacken your resume when you quit after three months.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 6:26 PM
I always thought that the flip side of a healthy remuneration package was the long hours we have to do. I learned very early on in my career never to work out my hourly rate, especially when on charter; it's just too depressing. Long hours, no weekends and holidays when it suits the owners' schedule are all part of the job. But if the captain and owners are intolerable and unreasonable, then move on. Most crew have been in a bad situation themselves and are understanding of a 'black spot' on your CV. Good luck.
Azzag
Posted: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 6:38 PM
Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 9


Anyone who has been in the game for any amount of time has experianced a similar situation. Don't worry about it and move on. Staying in a questionable situation for only a short period is not a problem as long as it does not become a pattern.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 6:50 PM

I recently joined a M/Y a few weeks ago. In the beginning a great, great salary was offered. They call that the hook. I accepted the job even though a written contract would not be submitted. They call that line.I joined the boat 3 days prior to a 3 week trip. Provisioned, inventoried and stocked the boat. A lot of work for a boat that has not been "chef" savy. Tools, pots, pans, you name it! Two weeks into it I am told that there is no deal. The food has been great, etc. I get along with the crew, guests and owners. Turns out that I was being hired for a freelance position in the beginning. They call that sinker. Hook, Line and Sinker guys. My ol' man always said "whatever you do in life, get it in writing!" I'll be back in Ft. Lauderdale/West palm Beach in a few days!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just want to find a private M/Y with a nice crew, Captain and owners. I keep hearing the same ol' story! Everything sounds great at first. But once you get settled in they get back to their original ways. Thankfully I'm not doing this for the rest of my life!

Remember, there is a reason why "they" don't/won't give you a contract!

I have to go....need to start packing my bags!


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 9:04 PM
Wellbeing is a function of happiness, comfort, security and health and the concept that weekends are off limits when opportunities are open is ludicrous and possibly unlawful. If people are pressed to far potential for an accident or incident increases. Employers and managers have duty of care to employees. The flag state of the yacht, geographical location of the vessel and the nationality of crew play a role in the legal process if an accident or incident occurs and I certainly would not want to explain why an injured or dead crew member worked 90 consecutive days in 12 hour shifts. A career in yachting does not mean you have to give up your private life and sacrifice your own wellbeing. For me it’s a combination of work, salary and time off. Too much work or play is not good for the soul and people should always get paid fairly.
AndyP79
Posted: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 10:46 PM
Joined: 13/06/2009
Posts: 42


I am just curious if anyone does rotations? In the offshore world in the Gulf of Mexico a 28 days on 28 days off is normal. Two crews, who relive each other. If owners are going to want to not give time off, why not do something like that? They don't spend much more then normal, and we get time off to enjoy a little bit of a life.

AllyJ
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:50 AM
Joined: 21/03/2009
Posts: 19


Some do some don't. We have had amazing owners who've rented houses 'because they didn't want the pub on the dock to be the crew's back yard" and then of course - The Others. That's the same everywhere though, you get good bosses and bad. What is going to change though and possibly as early as December 2010 is that MCL 2006 will come into bearing as a world wide industry standard. MCL stands for Marine Labour Convention of 2006. It will impose mandatory standards for owners just like STCW does for crew. The MCL covers working hours, crew accommodatioin, social security, salaries and all that happy stuff. Without being in compliance, owners could find it difficult maintain insurance. It also makes contracts mandatory. Could be interesting... A xoxoox
Lissy
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 12:48 PM
Joined: 23/10/2009
Posts: 4


I heard about all the nasty stuff but the captain and owner we had been working for were really nice.

When we signed on the agent and the captain had crew agreements ready, explained to us the clauses and when we left at the end of the season everything owed was paid. I even got the remaining 5 days paid leave!

I now realize that this is probably not the rule, but I hope that I will find another boat with such nice guys.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 1:06 PM
Crew wellbeing is very much like safety, because these two responsibilities only are taken seriously when they benefit the employer, make financial sense and are mandatory work place practices. Turing over crew costs money assures inconsistent service and absolutely affects the overall reliability of the yacht. Yachting thrives on chaos and the bottom line of many businesses would be greatly reduced if crew held jobs for longer, adhered to consistent operational standards, where managed well and given sufficient resources to do their jobs correctly. Inconsistent standards exist in all business sectors and this is precisely why international, national and local authorities create, monitor and refine workplace standards. All I know is moral, fatigue, productivity, safety and quality are interlinked. Owners that overwork crew (foreign) crew, homeport their yachts in the USA and Europe are bending the rules, increasing their exposure to legal problems and lowering the overall standards of this wonderful business.
junior
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 5:30 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1024


Andy, that crew rotation stuff on yachts is not normal. I don't know anyone who likes it. Just had lunch with an engineer friend who is working rotation because he couldn't find a suitable chiefs job. . He told me that there are plenty of hassles involved but that the big problem for him is ...why work ten years for 5 years pay ? Half pay is an exaggeration but you do take a substantial pay cut when doing rotation. None of us are getting any younger. In the past I worked 8 years for a family with 2 yachts. I was captain on the private yacht and variuos captains ran the charter yacht. From time to time I would be redeployed to the charter yacht to stand in for a captain. Very difficult. I didnt know the guests..I didnt know what kind of vibes the captain had on the boat, I didnt know the temperament of the crew. A commercial vessel is a piece of machinery doing a specific task, to a regular schedule, it has no personality...no vibes to sell. .
AndyP79
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 6:31 PM
Joined: 13/06/2009
Posts: 42


Junior,
 I see your point. It makes a lot of sense. You end up with inconsistency in the flow of the operations, due to the nature of the operations.
To get back on the original subject, I guess it just means that people are going to have to get used to having contracts, and making sure that everything is spelled out. Myself, I won't take a job that I believe to be a permanent without one. Temp jobs, okay, I can understand that if your shaking a hand that your going on to freelance for the trip, but other then that.
Best of luck to everyone on their seasonal hunt for the next best thing....

Chief
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 6:38 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 342


"A commercial vessel is a piece of machinery doing a specific task, to a regular schedule, it has no personality...no vibes to sell."

Hack .. cough .. gasp ..splutter ... Geez Junior, you were doing so well lately then you come up with this!

Every ship has its own personality and "vibes" and that comes from and is passed on by the crew, not by the machinery or the voyage. Each ship; tanker, containership, RoRo, whatever its purpose, has a culture and an indentity that makes it unique, just as much so as any yacht.


Chief
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 6:58 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 342


"You end up with inconsistency in the flow of the operations, due to the nature of the operations."

 

Quite the opposite. If a vessel is professionally operated there are standards of performance and procedures that take precedence over personalities. There is a great deal of consistency and that is the foundation on which safety is built. That is what ISM and resource management is all about. If consistency is lacking it is because it never existed to begin with.

There is a phenomenon that pervades vessels which have little or no crew turnover. In the shipping industry it is called "one ship stupid" - the crew does an outstanding job of repeating the same mistakes until something really bad happens and the outside world gets to see it. It is what happens when someone has been onboard too long to see the larger picture. Things are done a certain way because that is how they have always been done, not because it is safer, less expensive, better, or contributes to a better operation. Rote learning is the root of this disease and it is pervasive in the yachting business because, particularly among engineers, there is no mentoring, no oversight, and no supervision by more experienced personnel. Worst of all, there is no chance to stand at a distance and look at the onboard culture. 


AndyP79
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 8:53 PM
Joined: 13/06/2009
Posts: 42


Chief,
 I see your point also. So what can we do to come up with something that works? Is there some sort of middle ground? For yachts that is. We already know the commercial world has it down pat.

Chief
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 9:35 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 342


"So what can we do to come up with something that works?"

 

 As I wrote earlier, If a vessel is professionally operated there are standards of performance and procedures that take precedence over personalities. "That is what ISM and resource management is all about."

 

You don't need to reinvent the wheel, you don't have to "come up" with something new. The way to operate smoothly and reduce the risks of accidents already exists. There is no secret method. Stop looking for one and stop thinking that running a yacht is different than running any other vessel. The theater and the sideshow surrounding a yacht operation may lead some to believe a yacht is different but that belief is a fatal flaw.

 

The best charter captain may dazzle guests with his style but he might well be the last person you want onboard when seamanship really counts. Since all too often theater takes precedence over safety on yachts, it is even more important to replace the cult of personality with procedures and policies. Follow the safety management system, adapt bridge and engine room resource management systems. In short, take the operation of the vessel seriously, act like a professional and demand high standards of those charged with the safety and health of the crew and passengers.

 


junior
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 9:36 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1024


I can tell you what senior guys that I know do. They work the big mega yachts flat out for as long as they can bear it...say two years behing bars..Then they throw in the towel and fly home to Ft Lauderdale or what ever town they call home and take a job running some little 70 ft boat doing day trips locally to get their personal life back. After they get rested up they once again head out onto the Mega yachts again. This cycle is very effective. My neighbor just go off a 70 meter in Asia as engineer and is presently running a little 20 meter Sunseeker motorboat.
AndyP79
Posted: Thursday, November 5, 2009 9:54 PM
Joined: 13/06/2009
Posts: 42


Chief, I like how you put everything you said. I guess really there is not more to say on that, you said it well.
Junior, I like what you said about going back and forth to big boats versus the smaller ones. Hopefully those guys are bringing their big knowledge and applying it to the younger guys like chief says.

Henning
Posted: Friday, November 6, 2009 2:00 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1061


AndyP79 wrote:
I am just curious if anyone does rotations? In the offshore world in the Gulf of Mexico a 28 days on 28 days off is normal. Two crews, who relive each other. If owners are going to want to not give time off, why not do something like that? They don't spend much more then normal, and we get time off to enjoy a little bit of a life.
 
I did 15 years in the oilfields and never saw 28 & 28 in the GOM. 28 on 14 off was the standard hitch, and more frequently than not, either there would be the call to the boat on crew change day, "We don't have a relief for you, Can you work over?" or even more annoying, I'd be in Shreveport, halfway home and my phone would ring "I'm in a bind, I need you, can you come back?". Overseas contracts were a minimum of 90 days. When I originally took this job, it was supposed to be a rotational position, 3 months on, 3 months off, but they fired the other guy in June, and I've been here since, although I did take a 6 week vacation in Aug & Sept. I think I've found a relief though that can work a 3 man rotation taking a swing with me and my mate so we all get 6 months on, 3 months off.


Crew Confessor
Posted: Friday, November 6, 2009 9:59 PM
Joined: 20/11/2008
Posts: 94


Dear Duplicity,

Congratulations on having a job, trust me, there are many crew out there who wish they were complaining about lack of weekends off.  And if a Monday to Friday 9 to 5 situation is what you're after the yachting industry, at least the crewing end of it, probably isn't the best fit for you.  I am confused by a few aspects of your letter.  One, you begin by saying that you "recently"  took the job.  How recently?  A few weeks ago?  A month or more?  This is important to know because the current schedule may be due to a yard period where crew are often called upon to work abnormally long hours to finish projects and get the boat out of there and onto a charter schedule (for ex.).  Is it possible that this current schedule is temporary, and once projects are caught up a more reasonable schedule with follow?  I certainly do not advocate 7 day work weeks for anyone, it's just not healthy physically or mentally but we all have known periods of time on yachts when it becomes necessary.  Most good captains will make this up to crew by scheduling mini vacations to give you a break and time to recharge your batteries.

If you began "recently" isn't it a little soon to be so concerned about holidays?  Most yachts schedule crew holidays when they can, it's not like a corporate land job, and the sad fact is, many of the time periods we would most like to spend with family and friends are the times when the yachts are busy with owners and guests.  Many yachts have fluid schedules and a charter can pop up on short notice, forcing everyone to conform to the yacht's schedule, not the other way around.  For this reason I have always advised crew to buy fully refundable tickets or wait until the very last minute to purchase air flights.

Contract or not, vacation policies are something you should have discussed before accepting the job.  I applaud the owners of yachts who generously provide plane tickets and other perqs but it is not necessarily standard!  If one is flown to the yacht from home for a specified length of time (say 12 months), a ticket back at the end of your CONTRACT would be expected, but then again a contract would be involved.

I am shocked by the management style that your captain and owner uses, being "regularly sniped at and verbally reprimanded by the Captain and Owner" is certainly no way to run a yacht, or anything for that matter.  It's demoralizing and, in the case of a sea going yacht such a climate of fear can cost you your life.  

How long have the rest of the crew been aboard?  If the yacht is one that is notorious for lack of crew longevity, and there certainly are a few of them in the business, it will not have the same repercussions on your resume that an abbreviated work history on a well respected yacht does.  Word gets around in this business.  On the other hand, sticking it out on one of the "hell ships" can often pay off in spades.  People in the know will admire your fortitude and subsequent positions will seem like a walk in the park by comparison.

If you are being paid a living wage, and on time, your stomach is full and your life is not being put in danger,  I suggest that in this current economic climate you stick it out.  Make the most of this experience, you can learn something from every boat, even if it is learning how not treat your crew if you are someday captain of a yacht yourself.  Keep your ears open for a new and when a better opportunity comes along, pursue.  Give proper notice when you leave, and do everything as properly and professionally as possible, regardless of how badly you are treated, within reason of course!  should you ever feel that you life is being put in jeopardy through blatant mis-management, unsafe seamanship/negligence, then walk right off.  

Resist the temptation to speak badly of the boat after you leave, remember what mother said, "If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all."  If people ask, say that you are looking forward to your next position.  Just as past employers are limited about what they can and should say about their former workers, often the old standby, "would you hire this person again?" works just as well as "would you work on that yacht again?" or "I would not return to that yacht if asked."

In closing I want to address one final statement in your letter.  "...the deceptive method of operation this owner utilizes..."  to add that while the owner certainly appears to be guilty of many things here, the ultimate responsibility for permitting his command to be operated in such a manner lies with your captain.  As master of vessel how it is run is ultimately up to him.  His manner suggest complicity, if not agreement, and he deserves full measure of blame for running his command in a climate of demoralizing fear and who knows how many other poor practices.

Hang In There, Good Luck Finding a New Gig!

Your Crew Confessor
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, November 7, 2009 6:53 PM
Sounds like a hell ship! Hope you find another job quick!
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 6:26 AM
Wake up! There are "nice" owners out there who will act like they care and treat their crew very well indeed. You don't hear about them very often because they usually are low key, and when someone does leave a position it's filled long before the departing crewman says his final farewells, by word of mouth from the crew. In other words the departing crew suggests their own replacement. To most owners you're just a cog in the wheel. Don't kid yourself, you're replaceable (very easily replaceable these days) and six months after you leave the boat (usually much less) they won't remember your name if they ever learned it in the first place. Don't think too highly of yourself.
Duplicity
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 12:59 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


Dear crew confessor, I appreciate your response, and shall respond to your formum post. Firstly I am lucky to have a job and understand there are many people out of work and this is precisely why I am hanging tough, I need my job and refuse to leave until I achieve my objectives. I’ve been with yacht more for than seven months (7) and since joining the yacht I have seen the wellbeing and morale of my crewmates decline, this is very difficult to watch and is precisely why I choose to pen the original forum. Captains need crew and how well a yacht operates is a function of the Captains ability to lead, manage and support the network and the human and material resources that enable success. Treating crew like slaves and failing to deliver acceptable workplace standards does not encourage people to work harder or embrace the objectives of the owner. Close quarters living enhances the highs and lows of the workplace, consequently one would expect that the overall wellbeing of crew is a high priority for the captain and owner. This crew are the hardest working group I’ve had the pleasure of working with and a seasonal low may occur, but the damage has already been done and people are distrustful of management ethos and the SEVEN DAY WEEK WORK CYLCLE which has dominated these past seven months. Crew confessor you are absolutely correct, a seven day week is not healthy, nor is continuously working people because it is devastates moral, increases fatigue and significantly reduces productivity. You mentioned holidays well, vacation time is normally accumulated and it is very hard to accumulated something you don’t have a binding agreement for. I hope people take my advice and don’t make the mistake I did, by joining a yacht without an agreement and clarification of the work cycle. Holidays were discussed in my interview, but what is said and what is done are two different things. Short notice and no paid ticket is highly unusual and extremely unfair. We get one choice, do the long hours and work seven days a week or leave. Remember this has been going on for seven months, over two refits and one cruising season and the all up all working is the owners doctrine. The Captain of this yacht does not support crew and this is prompting people to leave ASAP. Crew confessor you are again correct the buck stops with the Captain and his/her inability to manage the owner, lead, distribute the workload and responsibilities amongst the officers and crew is the crux of our problems. If the Captain worked with and supported the crew, motivated, built a team, communicated effectively and manage time well it would be possible to sustain the hustle the owner desires and requires to achieve objectives.
Henning
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 8:09 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1061


Duplicity wrote:
Crew confessor you are again correct the buck stops with the Captain and his/her inability to manage the owner, lead, distribute the workload and responsibilities amongst the officers and crew is the crux of our problems. If the Captain worked with and supported the crew, motivated, built a team, communicated effectively and manage time well it would be possible to sustain the hustle the owner desires and requires to achieve objectives.

Excuse me but no, the buck stops with You and your inability to stand up for yourself. As you said, you have no contract and nothing binding you to this crappy job, you choose to remain there so it is YOU who are enabling the owners style. As long as there are enablers, there will be no change in the situation. Don't blame the captain for being weak when you are just as weak. I've quit better jobs for lesser reasons than you're stating. You made a mistake by taking this job, now accept that responsibility and quit whining. You are actually doing a disservice to the entire industry by accepting the conditions of your employment. Stand up for yourself or shut up and get back to work....
Duplicity
Posted: Sunday, November 8, 2009 10:16 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


Dear Henning, Agree or disagree this forum has prompted a great deal of attention and made a number of people think about my particular situation. I do stick up for myself and am intelligent enough to know I made a mistake by taking the job. Discussing my error and the duplicity taking place is a positive way to cope with the situation and allow people to make their own judgments on the subject. Openly discussing issues with the Captain has not changed anything and the status quo leaves me with three options. Option 1 quit - Option 2 stay until something better comes along - Option 3 take it up directly with the owner (not an option becasue I know my station) You are correct the buck stops with me and my original choice. Whether I stay or go does not change what is wrong with the situation, but openly speaking about it has the potential to prevent this occuring in the future.
Henning
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 3:55 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1061


Duplicity wrote:
Dear Henning, Agree or disagree this forum has prompted a great deal of attention and made a number of people think about my particular situation. I do stick up for myself and am intelligent enough to know I made a mistake by taking the job. Discussing my error and the duplicity taking place is a positive way to cope with the situation and allow people to make their own judgments on the subject. Openly discussing issues with the Captain has not changed anything and the status quo leaves me with three options. Option 1 quit - Option 2 stay until something better comes along - Option 3 take it up directly with the owner (not an option becasue I know my station) You are correct the buck stops with me and my original choice. Whether I stay or go does not change what is wrong with the situation, but openly speaking about it has the potential to prevent this occuring in the future.

Well, going does have an effect, as does talking about it because if you leave and enough people know the situation, he'll have trouble finding crew, but there is always someone desperate enough to take even the worst jobs. To really have an effect though for future operations there is another option, but you have to have the balls to take it. You can sue for your rights. The owner is not only acting immoraly, he is also acting illegaly. Contract or no, there are still international laws that dictate the treatment of seamen. You can thank Richard Henry Dana for that. His writing of Two Years Before the Mast caused a s-t storm in the US Congress which caused laws to be enacted that have been adopted internationally by IMO and must be enforced by all signatory nations. There is no specific contract required for these laws to be enforceable, just need to be on the crew list. One of the primaries is that you cannot be required to work more than 8 hrs, and you're not allowed to volunteer to work more than 12.
Kim_Russell
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 9:17 AM
Joined: 20/09/2009
Posts: 6


The buck absolutely stops with the captain. It's a fact of life that crap rolls downhill and the attitude, work ethic and lack of enthusiasm of the captain can not help but be reflected in the crew. Working for a captain who doesn't support the crew or allow them to have sufficient time off to recharge (and I have worked for such a captain) is such a miserable situation. Standing up for yourself can all too often mean that the you find yourself looking for a new job because the captain has decided that 'you're not a good fit'. Duplicity isn't weak for not standing up for his/herself, I suggest that this person is exactly the opposite for sticking it out. Duplicity, be professional, hand in your notice and get straight to FLL or SXM and find a new job. Find a great captain who knows what he's doing. I can assure you that the culture onboard that boat is happy and productive because the crew are getting enough rest to perform their jobs properly. They are out there, you just have to ask the right questions at your interview. And a good captain wont be threatened by you asking a few well thought out questions in order to get an idea of the culture he is promoting on the boat. All the best!
Duplicity
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 1:48 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


Dear Henning, your opinion is precisely that and the manner in which you express yourself prompts confrontation. As I said before I do stick up for myself, know the value of my job and steadfast refuse to leave unless it suits me. A confrontational approach does not achieve anything, especially when you’re a link in the chain. My persistence and the execution of my job enabled me to achieve my objectives and deliver a message. Today I got a pay rise and acknowledgement of my performance in the past seven months. The issue of extended working hours is also being dealt with and positive change has begun. Jumping ship and throwing tantrums is a route I chose not to follow and giving into the pressure would not have resulted in any change on this yacht. Some of my crewmates have already left and I wish them well. Let’s just hope the grass is greener for them. Rules and regulations mean nothing when there is practical no pathway for mediation. The departure of my crewmates is very possibly the principal catalyst for change on this yacht
junior
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 2:20 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1024


The situation you describe sounds so bad and so far fetched that its easy to simply stereotype you as a disgruntled crew who bit off more than he could chew. I have never heard of a yacht, under normal yachting conditions , running the crew so hard.. Never. I have done very long cruises in which the crew worked non stop, never got out of sight ot the yacht and never had a real " weekend off " . These things happen, all crew should be aware before signing on to a long voyage.. Perhaps you should elaborate on exactly what kind of schedule the yacht is operating on. I just cant believe that the yacht is stern to Antibes and crew are not given the day off.
Duplicity
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 4:14 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


Well we are not in Antibes and the program is definitely challenging. The owner lives near the yachts birth and visits the vessel regularly, expects people to be working and always has a project, event or trip planned. The truth is stranger than fiction my friend and what you read is real. What is occuring now is change and this is an outcome of crew speaking up, leaving or working on a better deal for themselves.
junior
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 7:25 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1024


Duplicity., I work for an owner for the past 15 years who thinks nothing of 100 day cruises. I would say that the conflict in your program is not the owners fantasy and demands, but the captain. On high intensity programs it is imperative that crew are introduced to and have first hand...one to one interaction with the owner. Many captains are so insecure that they couldn't possibly allow crew to do this. I find that the only way I can drive crew into the ground, 7 days a week, is when the owner explains to you face to face, over a beer, the reason for his seemingly abusive behavior.
Duplicity
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 10:10 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


Junior, I know precisely the whys and wherefores of this particular owner, because I am here and you are not. The vessels program and working ethos of the past months has resulted in a 75% crew change while I have been on the yacht.

 

We are not a warship, fishing vessel or pirate ship, we are a yacht and the “A Typical Yacht”, does not work like this and for good reason.

 

IT DOES NOT WORK

 

Conjoining high seasonal workloads, long voyages and intense refits wears people out. When there is no light at the end of the tunnel and fatigue sets in morale slips and the downward spiral evacuates people’s loyalty and desire to stick with a program.


Henning
Posted: Monday, November 9, 2009 11:24 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1061


Duplicity wrote:
Dear Henning, your opinion is precisely that and the manner in which you express yourself prompts confrontation. As I said before I do stick up for myself, know the value of my job and steadfast refuse to leave unless it suits me. A confrontational approach does not achieve anything, especially when you’re a link in the chain. My persistence and the execution of my job enabled me to achieve my objectives and deliver a message. Today I got a pay rise and acknowledgement of my performance in the past seven months. The issue of extended working hours is also being dealt with and positive change has begun. Jumping ship and throwing tantrums is a route I chose not to follow and giving into the pressure would not have resulted in any change on this yacht. Some of my crewmates have already left and I wish them well. Let’s just hope the grass is greener for them. Rules and regulations mean nothing when there is practical no pathway for mediation. The departure of my crewmates is very possibly the principal catalyst for change on this yacht
 
Well, Ceasar Chavez you ain't. You started this thread with a complaint and a question. The answer to the question in the title of the thread is, "Some do, some don't". You are the reason some get away with the don't. By your own words emboldened above, you are reaping the benefit of others courage to leave a crappy illegal and immoral situation and risking their livelyhood, seeking elsewhere. Bravo on you. Did you just come here to complain and get sympathy or what? As for a practical pathway for mediation, you are correct, there is none. However, for remediation, every flag state has a court process that is easily accessible. If you don't actually want to do something about the problem, and are willing to ride on the coat tails of others who do, that's fine, you get exactly the station in life that you earn, but at that, buck up and don't complain, you look like a gutless whiner.


Salvador
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:09 AM
Joined: 22/07/2009
Posts: 97


Hi, 

Dear duplicity, well excuse me my frontality, I have to ask:  Do you smoke, take lots of coffee\drink, eat healthy or take any medication?  If you have weekends, why you go out instead of rest? Ok, some days out it's nice, why not balanced...?

  Really, as you said, that's a yacht...  for as much work you say you have, sleep 5-7 ours a day, do \ re-do, take in , take out, fix , brake,  fibre,   oil,  scrub,  wash,  navigate,  maybe even  open a botle, whatever....  if it's a busy working yacht for me it's paradise!!!! Is it for you?  hum..... 

 On the other and, are they arrogant with you, they dis-respect you? .... that is another thing.... either you , as said before " shut up and go on with your work" +  "smile in your face"  or quit, it's simple.

Take care, good luck, and I think you did well in asking,   That's what we're here for  : )

 


junior
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:51 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1024


Again Duplicity, read what I said. Get to know the owner. Does he have new boat syndrome and just cant stop playing with his new toy ? Is he an investment banker surrounded by people who naturally work 18 hrs a day. Its important. If you don't understand you cant possible decide whether the owner is abusing you or simply acting the way he lives his life. I work for one of those type A guys who only needs 5 hours of sleep a night. We do some of the craziest things like...on a moments notice divert course to that town, frantically call the port captain, perform some very difficult docking maneuver, the boss jumps off the yacht, tears into town, buys a newspaper so he can read about last nights football game and then before the engine has even been shut down, returns and off we go again. I take no offense because I know who he is and can devise strategies to cope with his hyperactivety.
 
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