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Anyone else sick of seeing people work illegally on tourist visa in the U.S.?
SaveUSJobs
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:20 AM
Joined: 10/02/2012
Posts: 1


We've all seen this going on for what seems forever. Foreigners’ arrive in Fort Lauderdale on tourist visa’s and start looking for a job onboard a yacht. We see them doing day work on boats up and down the Florida coast. We know what they are doing is illegal and they know it too. But why don’t we do anything about it? Yes, most of them are really nice people. But truth is US Citizens have the right to work here and not them. They are the ones break the law and are at risk for deportation. If a South African wants to get a job on a yacht. Than he/she should start in the shipyards in SA and do deliveries and get tickets. Same with people from the EU, UK, OZ, NZ and ect. What’s worse is because of our US Citizenship we are being turned away from jobs due to "U.S. Citizens being a High Insurance Risk" and we are than replaced by foreigners with green cards or b1b2 visa(depending on the flag). Its getting out of control. For every person who gets a job on a yacht they tell 3 or more to come here and find work illegally. Because of this I am asking for your help in putting a stop to these people who are working illegally. Do use all a favor and contact local Florida elected officials and government agency. Thanks Contact Information: Toll Free: 1 (866) 347-2423 1-866-DHS-2ICE Website: www.ice.gov Director, Office of Detention and Removal Operations 801 I St, NW, Suite 900 Washington , DC 20536 Phone: 202-305-2734 Field Office Director, Miami 7880 Biscayne Blvd. Miami , FL 33138 Phone: 305-762-3622 SAC Tampa 2203 North Lois Avenue Suite 600 Tampa, FL 33607 Main (813) 348-1881 Fax (813) 348-1871 Washington Office: 444 N. Capitol St., NW, Ste. 349 Washington 20001 Phone: (202) 624-5885 Fax: (202) 624-5886 Office of the Governor Rick Scott The Capitol Tallahassee, FL 32399-0001 phone: 850-488-7146 Fax: 850-487-0801 Web Site: http://www.flgov.com/ http://www.flgov.com/contact-gov-scott/email-the-governor/ Connie Mack Washington Office: 317 Cannon House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515-0914 Phone: (202) 225-2536 Fax: (202) 226-0439 Naples Phone: 239-252-6225 Fax: (239) 332-8921 Bill Nelson (D - FL) 716 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510 (202) 224-5274 http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm Former Governer Jeb Bush & Associates LLC 1200 Anastasia Ave # 500, Coral Gables, FL 33134-6380 (305) 416-2626 ‎
DaveRobson
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 6:25 AM
Joined: 24/11/2008
Posts: 21


There's a few things that I'd like to comment on in this post. First of all, I am in no way defending anybody who illegally works on a tourist visa, and I do not support any boat that knowingly hires anybody, for daywork or otherwise who is not legally able to work on the boat. What I object to is the implication by the poster that it is unfair not to be employing Americans instead of the perfectly legal non-American crew working on vessels in the US with a B1/B2 visa or green card. I have worked in Florida for several years under a B1/B2 visa, and yes it is true that many boats take preference for non-US crew over US Crew, due to insurance reasons. However, rather than informing the authorities for every foreigner (the vast, vast majority of which are working perfectly legally) perhaps the poster should focus more on the reasons WHY insurance premiums are higher for US crew and WHY most owners prefer to keep their vessels foreign flagged rather than under a US flag. The simple truth of the matter is that the US is visited by hundreds of thousands of vessels every year of hundreds of different flags and a tiny proportion of those crew will be American. Are the Eastern Europeans and Philipino's on the cruise ships based in Port Everglades stealing US jobs? Are the deck crew on the container ships stealing US jobs? How about the fact that it is almost impossible for me to work on a US flagged boat even if it is based in my home country? The proportion of crew working illegally in the US is very small, and most of those do eventually get caught and dealt with. Encouraging everyone to inform the authorities every time they suspect someone is working illegally is just going to increase the red tape that is already driving boats away from the US and is only going to harm US jobs, both afloat and shorebased. How many captain's are going to bring boats to Florida if they and their crew are constantly being harassed to prove their B1/B2 status? How are the 'suspicious' going to prove whether or not I have a B1/B2 visa? By demanding to see my passport at the gas station? I think it is difficult enough already to work in the US with a Visa, and that anyone who thinks it is unfair that all the boats based in the US with a non US crew should look at the real problems of the litigious culture that drives up insurance rates and the American owners who don't feel strongly enough about hiring American crew to pay the inflated premiums. If an American in Florida can't find a yacht job then they should do what all the rest of the yachting community have to do, go to another yachting centre and try to find work there, after all none of the other nations listed by the poster get to work on yachts based in their own home country. I'm sure plenty of you will disagree.....
CornishCarlos
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:28 AM
Joined: 03/07/2009
Posts: 43


I agree with Dave R 100%... This problem is not only restricted to the shipping industry either. I spent a couple of winters working in Colorado and the company which employed me (they own several large ski resorts) are forced every year to seek foreign employees as the locals don't want to do the menial jobs. So they have a deal, where they get a set amount of work visas to issue to foreigners. The majority of whom are from OZ, NZ, SA and U.K. So the OP can either advise other US citizens to look harder for work on yachts or contact McDonalds, they employ a handful of legal US folk
Fadime
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:40 PM
Joined: 29/03/2010
Posts: 7


Hello to all,

the same is in the med americans work without visa, because they dont any visa to enter 90 days
then they find yacht and they start to work. Is not only problem in the States, take care about this.

I mean australian , nz, and americans need to start to work in Europe VISA Schengen ore local work
permision.

regards
Fadime

 



Rusty Wrench
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 3:25 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


Not to mention hotel workers, seasonal harvest/fruit pickers/farm workers, Nannies/Au Pairs, construction workers, etc, etc. It's a never ending win-win situation for employers, workers and the economy. Any past attempts to reverse the situation have all produced disastrous effects.
Henning
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:26 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


DaveRobson wrote:
There's a few things that I'd like to comment on in this post. First of all, I am in no way defending anybody who illegally works on a tourist visa, and I do not support any boat that knowingly hires anybody, for daywork or otherwise who is not legally able to work on the boat. What I object to is the implication by the poster that it is unfair not to be employing Americans instead of the perfectly legal non-American crew working on vessels in the US with a B1/B2 visa or green card. I have worked in Florida for several years under a B1/B2 visa, and yes it is true that many boats take preference for non-US crew over US Crew, due to insurance reasons.



It's not insurance reasons, trust me. Here's a little catch your owner if they are Americans hiring undocumented aliens (that's without a WORKING visa, B1/B2 does not qualify on this account) for work, even on their foreign flag yacht, in the US, THEY are in violation of the law.

As SaveUSJobs, keep an eye on the New England/Hamptons season this summer...

DaveRobson
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:38 AM
Joined: 24/11/2008
Posts: 21


Sorry Henning I may have misunderstood what you're saying here, but are you saying that a B1/B2 visa is not a valid visa for working on a foreign flagged vessel within the US?
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:49 AM
I believe Henning is quite accurate to the extent of an H1B2 visa and temporary work authorization in the US. I still lack clarification from my own research. Can you provide any information to the contrary from the USCIS web site. Here is one link that quite clearly states what constitutes work authorization while in the US. A B1 provides for business meetings and negotiation of a contract but not actual work according to the USCIS. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=13ad2f8b69583210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=13ad2f8b69583210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:55 AM
The following link may add more clarity yet - or maybe not? http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=cf6d83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=cf6d83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 2:06 AM
And another link referencing a B2. Still no determination on authorization for work from what I can see. http://www.path2usa.com/visitor-visa-guide My assumption is that the real argument or discussion is about whether a vessel docked in the US or in US waters is actually held accountable under the current laws of Immigration. And second where did the employment commence? Abroad or within the US?
DaveRobson
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 3:38 AM
Joined: 24/11/2008
Posts: 21


The whole point of working in the US on a foreign flag vessel is that the employee is not actually working in the US, they are working 'in' whichever country has flagged the vessel, such as the Cayman Islands or Marshall islands. This is why a B1/B2 visa holder cannot (without extreme difficulty) work on a US flagged vessel, because then they would be working in the US, for which they need a work permit or a green card. The B1/B2 allows a foreigner to enter the US to conduct business such as contract negotiations and accepting a position with a boat, but when they are actually working they are working for the flag country. A B1/B2 visa is the correct visa for non US crew working on foreign flagged vessels within US waters.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:08 PM
All I think this post is achieving is negativity, I am not American, but this post is sure making me tired of Amercans feeling done in. Can't wait for the next American to arrive at my passrelle just so I can show him away here in europe, simply because he is Amercan. Is this the kind of attitude you want to establish in our international industry?
jezza83
Posted: Monday, February 13, 2012 1:39 PM
Joined: 24/01/2009
Posts: 9


Most of the boats the 'illegal' crew are working on are foreign flagged, as US flagged boats are very strict about this. They are often in the US for a couple of months a year before heading off to the the Bahama's, Caribbean, Med etc. So it's not like they are always sitting in the US fulltime and taking jobs away from the locals. When they cross back to the Med, should the French start moaning like you are that American's are illegally working on board taking their jobs? Only US crew can work on US boats, anything foreign flagged can hire who they like. I know plenty of American's working on foreign flagged boats, but no foreigners working on US flagged boats.
Henning
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:04 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


DaveRobson wrote:
Sorry Henning I may have misunderstood what you're saying here, but are you saying that a B1/B2 visa is not a valid visa for working on a foreign flagged vessel within the US?


No, I am saying it is illegal for a US citizen to hire a undocumented alien to work for them on their foreign flag vessel while it is in US waters.

Henning
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:09 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


DaveRobson wrote:
The whole point of working in the US on a foreign flag vessel is that the employee is not actually working in the US, they are working 'in' whichever country has flagged the vessel, such as the Cayman Islands or Marshall islands. This is why a B1/B2 visa holder cannot (without extreme difficulty) work on a US flagged vessel, because then they would be working in the US, for which they need a work permit or a green card. The B1/B2 allows a foreigner to enter the US to conduct business such as contract negotiations and accepting a position with a boat, but when they are actually working they are working for the flag country. A B1/B2 visa is the correct visa for non US crew working on foreign flagged vessels within US waters.


Right, but that's not the only issue involved, just the only one the crew member has to be concerned with. There are further a set of laws governing the US Citizen Employer/Owner. If the owner is European or whatever non US nationality, then no issue. The issue arises when a US owner employs the B1/B2 holding foreigner and has the boat in Newport or the Hamptons, THAT is illegal.

Henning
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:22 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Anonymous wrote:
All I think this post is achieving is negativity, I am not American, but this post is sure making me tired of Amercans feeling done in. Can't wait for the next American to arrive at my passrelle just so I can show him away here in europe, simply because he is American. Is this the kind of attitude you want to establish in our international industry?





??? That's been going on for a long time, why do you think Americans resent it over here?


Henning
Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:55 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


jezza83 wrote:
Most of the boats the 'illegal' crew are working on are foreign flagged, as US flagged boats are very strict about this. They are often in the US for a couple of months a year before heading off to the the Bahama's, Caribbean, Med etc. So it's not like they are always sitting in the US fulltime and taking jobs away from the locals. When they cross back to the Med, should the French start moaning like you are that American's are illegally working on board taking their jobs? Only US crew can work on US boats, anything foreign flagged can hire who they like. I know plenty of American's working on foreign flagged boats, but no foreigners working on US flagged boats.


That is incorrect.... Read the whole laws as they pertain. The US makes it very simple and free, everything you nned to know is available from the source at The US FDSys website.

Title 8 contains Immigration issues, 33 Vessel rules and part 46 is Shipping regulations. If you read through title 46, you'll see your error.

 
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