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Inspections in Europe
Yacht Expedition
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 5:12 PM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


Does anyone have information on yachts being stopped in Europe? I am reading a lot of articles about this new inspection regime. Am I going to have trouble this summer? Maybe we should go to New England instead. Any thoughts? Tusen takk.
Matt Paint
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 6:17 PM
Joined: 19/01/2011
Posts: 49


In trouble for what exactly? Yachts are inspected all the time by classification societies, customs, immigration and coastguard agencies etc. The rumors are true about inspections, how frequent they are is a matter of circumstance and ensuring you have all your visas and licenses up to date is your responsibility. We where just in Saint Martin and we had the local coastguard and immigration complete a random vessel inspection. The worlds borders are kept much tighter these days and for very good reason, people are not always doing the right thing. Europe is no different to anywhere else, if anything its the slackest when it comes to border control.
junior
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 6:48 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Compared to the US, Europe is gentle. If you're a private boat no worries, standard procedures. If you're charter, seek advice from a pro agent who handles that stuff. At present in the Southern Med Nato warships are heavily patrolling . You will be contacted Bridge to Bridge, VHF 13 and 16, but its nothing more than typical VTS ... Keep an eye on your sat com and you will receive the bulletin and contact phone number. http://www.jfcnaples.nato.int/page18192653.aspx http://www.nato.int/cps/en/SID-C3F91FFD-3EF16CEA/natolive/news_71726.htm http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_7932.htm Ive been told that port security in Malta and Sicily is high so have your paperwork in order. Many thousands of refugees are fleeing the coast of North Africa ....keep a sharp lookout.
Yacht Expedition
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 6:59 PM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


I should have been more specific in the posting. My question regards yachts being stopped by port state control for safety issues. I'm not asking about immigration and refugee issues, but thank you. Those problems are always there. This new THETIS program says that yachts will now be visited by ship inspectors. I don't have a problem with that, but it may prove inconvenient if its a regular thing in every port. Anyone been on the receiving end of that?
junior
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 7:46 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Its my impression that if you fly the American Flag you will be considered a low risk vessel at port entry. If your flag is high risk or the vessel is old, then submit to inspection. Once passed you will become a low risk vessel and I would think have no future problems. I personally know of no commercially registered yachts who have fallen foul of the new inspection regime. The only worry I hear is safe manning levels and crew officer documentation.
Yacht Expedition
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 8:08 PM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


Hello junior. I take it you are in Europe right now. I was reading a press release from the PYA about several yachts that had been detained for various deficiencies. Personally, I'm not a fan of the PYA and their scare tactics (ie unionize the industry, etc), so I thought to ask if anyone had run into an inspector. What was their actual experience? Maybe some more will post for us over the weekend. Thanks.
Yacht Expedition
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 8:13 PM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


Sorry, forgot to also add about your reference to the flag. Surprisingly, the US flag is not on the low risk list. Here is what I have found so far: Belgium, China, Cyprus, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Hongkong, Ireland, Isle of Man, Italy, Japan, Liberia, Luxembourg, Marshall Islands, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Russian Federation, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom. Where is Cayman? That's my registry and why I am concerned if they will be targeted.
junior
Posted: Friday, April 8, 2011 10:02 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Yah, Im hauled out in Spain right now. Ive read bits about THETIS in the yachting press. Always its by management companies selling their services. In Palma a good , non managment company, contact is Diego Colon..the director of the shipyard Astilleros mallorca and president of the Spanish Superyacht Group. All the big boats are over there and certainly Diego must be aware of what the boats are thinking and could advise. Contact: Diego Colon Tel: +34 609 344099 +34 609 344099 Fax: +34 971 72 13 68 Email: stefan.enders@astillerosdemallorca.com Website: www.astillerosdemallorca.com
junior
Posted: Saturday, April 9, 2011 9:24 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Had coffee this morning with a commercial Caymans. Thetis is indeed a worry. Yachts who have recently passed survey have been challenged and fined for minor infractions.. As for inspection, since the system is recent there is a backlog of inspection to be done. The Caymans captain was not sure how aggressively Commercial yachts will be scrutinized or how to preempt an inspection so as not to ruin a cruise. Its a new world.
Yacht Expedition
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 1:36 AM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


Interesting info you passed along Junior. Thank you. I mentioned this new regime to the boss over the weekend. He is involved in numerous industries including aeronautics and pharmaceuticals. He compared the new THETIS to those. His advice? The inspections are inevitable, so don't fight it. Instead, prepare for it, BUT, and he emphasized this, make sure the preparation ensures no delays for his plans or the charters. He wants Europe this summer and it must happen without a problem. We discussed several options. First, research the possibility of changing to one of the low risk flags. He thought that there is no need to bring attention to ourselves simply for having a particularly colored rag on the stern. That is easier said than done, but may be worth the additional costs. Second, get some training for the crew to prepare for the inspection. My boss said that before his one company submits any new product to regulators for approval, he has a third-party company do an identical review to find any potential problems. This reduces the heartache when dealing with a government agency. Sounds reasonable. So, my next question to the forum, has anyone worked with a company that is familiar with port state control inspections? I will be contacting our class society ABS on Monday. They may have something, or at least a reference. Any other companies out there? Lots of calls to make this week.
Rusty Wrench
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 3:19 AM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


THETIS/Paris MOU only applies to commercially registerd yachts. Inspections are primarily focused on minimum safe manning, officer CoC's, seafarer medical certs, ISM system in order, paperwork, paperwork, etc.

However, ANY vessel over 400t (private or commercial) is subject to port state inspection of O.W.S. and Oil Record Book under MARPOL.

If one is running a vessel in accordance with local/international regulations and conventions whilst maintaining accurate records/logs of shipboard operations, then there is nothing to worry about.


junior
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:06 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Rusty...from what I hear the worry is "guilty until proven innocent" and the possibility of an inspection at inappropriate timing. Logic says that during your yard period you have an inspection performed, not on charter. Sounds like commercial yachts would be wise to stay informed and keep bookwork up to date. Over the weekend , having beers with Commercial yacht captains, I heard of equipment installation defects leading to fines on relatively new, top line yachts. It has focused their minds.
Rusty Wrench
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 1:18 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


The logic with regard to THETIS is all commercial vessels in European waters not yet inspected WILL be inspected in due course regardless of the vessel's activity. If boarded for inspection with owner/charter aboard what better a time to prove everything is in order?

''having beers with Commercial yacht captains, I heard of equipment installation defects leading to fines on relatively new, top line yachts''

What sort of installation defects? give examples and be helpful.


 


junior
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:15 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Since Im not commercial I haven't really paid attention to Thetis and can only pass on waterfront gossip. Seems like the big, high budget , boats I speak with are unworried...one more task for management. . The next level down....older or smaller boats....who are internally maneged with no back office staff, high crew turnover and on a tight budget are nervous. Oil pollution devices seem to be under particular scrutiny. Talk was about a modern yacht who had the bleed line ? or Purge line ? for the oil water separator mis installed and this drew a substantial fine. Paperwork..logbooks... on smaller boats with high crew turnover drew comment . Manning levels and certification is a concern. Since youre commercial I would expect that you are aware of more than I concerning inspection issues . A big question among fellow beer drinkers was ..... will the local inspection authority aggresively use the Thetis system as a cash cow in these financially challenged times.
junior
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 6:23 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


And DOCKWALK....It might be profitable for your readers if you change this thread title or run a feature called THETIS. Many crew Ive spoken to have never heard of it.
G. Threepwood
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:21 PM
Joined: 31/07/2009
Posts: 28


In the merch world this is nothing new, and capts/offs are quite accustomed to it. Now it's called "thetis", before this referred to as Paris MOU. The proceedings are more or less like this if your boat is working for a charterer. Your management company performs internal audits at least once every year. Some guy comes aboard and checks all statutory requirements and that which falls under the managing company's policy, ie all docs and pubs, ISM management system, ISPS logs and revisions, waste management (ISO 14001 with associated waste/discharge logs, emission logs for NOX, fuel consumption, urea scrubbing etc), marpol, solas, navigation logs, even rest hour logs, and passage plans, pilot cards, all certificates ship and personal (especially coc's and eng's) ie the kit and kaboodle, every conceivable official document that the ship holds. Then he looks at fiscal/budgetary matters and finally spot checks of maintenance. Typically it takes 1-2 days. Normally your management company will then issue an internal report with findings, as non conformities at this stage is a drastic measure. The findings are corrected asap This also serves as a "vetting process" for external audits. External audits are either from the charterer or class society. External audit from the charterer is also an annual event. If the charterer is not happy with the audit, he can put you "off hire", ie non-conformities. If the internal audit had some findings and these are corrected in time, you should go through the external one with out to many hitches. The charterer checks the kit and kaboodle and how the vessel is practicing/adhering to the charterers policies/regs, typically a very strong emphasis on ISM management and operations. If all this goes well you still have to do the class requirement audits, some parts which are annually (solas, navigation, GMDSS etc), others which are biannually and some that are every fifth year. Any finding on an an external audit is not a very big thing, but you fix it at earliest opportunity because it can destroy your chances for renewing the contract with the charterer. If there are non- conformities, you will be penalized with "off hire" or detained (with regards to class) for not being seaworthy. On top of this you have the flag state audits. In many countries the class society has delegated authority to perform parts/whole inspection. On most European flagged ships in international trade class=flag state inspection. And now to the Paris MOU/Thetis! Port state control will be performed on all ships. Low risk flags are flag states that have ratified/implemented the Paris MOU. There is a backlog but every ship will be inspected (if not already done) when opportunity arises and to be conducted by a signatory flag state. Cat 2 are non signatory flag states and they will be inspected at the earliest opportunity. So if Congress doesn't ratify the MOU in a jiffy (like that is going to happen any time soon!), US flagged ships will be hounded out! Same goes for Caymans/Marshalls etc. High risk flags are ships from nations that have not ratified IMO or have a poor history with port state controls (read Myanmar, Iran, Yemen, etc). They will usually not be allowed access to signatory states waters or detained upon site. Also if a particular ship has a poor record, or have skipped detention with non-confomities. Port state controls are typically strict on certificates, log books, navigation/chart pub correction and SOLAS/MARPOL/ISO 14001 and ISPS, but relatively lax on ISM. A non-confomity means NO SAILING and fines. Findings means fines and a possible detention if the number of findings are considerable. The findings are given a specific time to be corrected, if it is not it will result in a non-conformity and an elevated risk status! A lot of words but I hope it was somewhat clarifying!
G. Threepwood
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:11 AM
Joined: 31/07/2009
Posts: 28


BTW, under the Paris MOU, they talk about deficiencies. A deficiency that does not constitute ground for detention=findings=fines. A deficiency that does constitute ground for detention=non-conformity=no sailing or straight to the yard! The inspection database can be found at : http://www.parismou.org/Inspection_efforts/Inspections/Inspection_database_search/ Quite a number of known yachts have been inspected, from Tatoosh, Octopus etc with minor deficiencies, but the hammer fell hard in Genoa, IT, where some high profile charter yachts have been detained and put on the name and shame list for very elementary things that one would think that with even an MCA yacht license holder would deem necessary, such as chart corrections, CSR, voyage planning and nautical pubs!
Yacht Expedition
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:43 AM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


So Mr. Threepwood, which part of Monkey Island are you from? That was a fun old video game. Your thorough explanation on THETIS, Paris MOU, and the audit process is appreciated, although extremely condescending, in my opinion. One thing to remember when comparing yachting to the merchant ship industry, the only similarities are that they both float. That is it. I know from experience having worked in both. So to say that THETIS should be no big deal to yachties is completely useless. Were ships ready for ISM when it came out in 1998? No, everyone panicked. Now it is a normally accepted practice. Over time, THETIS will be normal for yachts too, but it is a learning process. Junior hit it right on the head. The majority of our industry is smaller, self-managed yachts. But even the big boys, with full time managers, do not have any experience with this stuff. The managers are usually ex-yachties. I spoke with ABS today. They had no clue. In their defense, this has been a normal process with Europe, the US, and Asia for years, so for a yacht to ask if there is anything special they can provide to prepare makes us sound 10 years behind the curve, which we are. For my research on changing flags, the only viable option so far on the list of low risk ships is the Marshall Islands. They have a yacht registry and appear willing to transfer our MCA certification to their equivalent code. The annual fees are cheaper and class is able to do the surveys versus flying a CISR surveyor everywhere. But I am hesitant to not use a Red Ensign. Isle of Man is on the list, but their fees are not competitive, especially with the VAT rate. They would accept some of the CISR surveys, but not all = more surveys = $$$. I'm still looking for a training company to help the onboard staff. That would be a big plus at this point.
G. Threepwood
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:51 AM
Joined: 31/07/2009
Posts: 28


Condescending perhaps, extremely, not! All measures under ParisMOU have been implemented for some time now, since 2009. Thetis is only the database/tool for doing so. And THETIS is brand new. The novelty of the THETIS program is that there are three pillars on which it rests: ship risk profile (your unit), company performance profile (your management/owner) and state flag risk (the rag under which you operate). Poor performance (no of deficiencies or detentions accumulated) will influence your ship. If your management company has had detentions of other vessels, your ship might be targeted or raised in category! Short search on the database shows that already Burgess, Bluewater and Fraser are racking up points which does not bode well for the other ships under their management. Its not only about flag! Another implementation is the SAFESEANET, the online reporting tool for ships in commercial trade. SAFESEANET is the reporting of arrivals/departure, IMO crewlists and ISPS declaration to the port state authorities. 24 hour before port of call if you are not on a target list, 72 hours if you are targeted for an expanded inspection. Vessels denominated as pleasure craft are exempt from the program. But if your vessel is under some form of charter you are fair game. But then again, it is nothing new in it. As always, all certificates must be up to date, ship must be properly maintained, crew must be properly trained. The mantra is: documentation, documentation, documentation! Keep your books in order. Even yacht only captains with or without ISM training should know this! As for the smaller units in charter without a managing company, the owner takes the heat.
G. Threepwood
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:58 AM
Joined: 31/07/2009
Posts: 28


The whole idea of THETIS is creating a common database for participating nations, and produce a name and shame list accessible for everybody. Yachts as a type is not mentioned in the database, look for "other special activities" on the drop down menu and search for your favorite yacht flags and you will find well known yachts and a good indication on how they are run!
Rusty Wrench
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 3:19 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


'Participating nations' is the keyword here, not surprising ABS 'had no clue' because so far the US government has not ratified THETIS.

Change of flag/registry is futile, you must undertand IT IS THE VESSEL which is under inspection, not the flag. Having passed inspection without any problems, the VESSEL will be on the low risk list. 

However, it appears there are poor quality vessels under good flags, and there are good vessels under poor quality flags....

It's all down to the quality of ownership/captain and crew, surprise, surprise. 


G. Threepwood
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 7:51 PM
Joined: 31/07/2009
Posts: 28


It always comes down to the vessel, and the aptitude of its master. However, as I tried to explain earlier, your owner/management (ISM company) is also rated and your vessel can suffer for poor performance of other vessels under the same management. Even if you pass every inspection with flying colors, your "Nitwit Int. Yacht Collection ltd" poor performance record will ensure you extended inspections every 12 months because of deficiencies of other yachts under the same ISM manager. YES, you will be penalized for what others do (by way of minimum inspection intervals)! To change flag and ISM company will ease the situation, but under new flag/management you still will have to go through an initial inspection. If everything is ok, you have 36 months to prepare for the next. BTW ABS as recognized organization is rated as the second best performer on the "white list" (not to be confused with the IMO/STCW lists), and they should be fully aware of the implementation of the ParisMOU. ABS class many ships built for European trade and is well known entity in shipping in Europe
IYB
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:32 PM
Joined: 17/05/2008
Posts: 10


In response to the above inquiry about training. Our organization is currently preparing the yachts within our fleet for inspection by the Paris MOU nations. As part of their annual commercial or MARPOL surveys, we provide the captain and crew with a basic orientation (90 minutes) to the port state control process, what to expect during an inspection, even the questions that may be asked. The largest part of this new involvement for yachts is understanding the process and ensuring that yachts can effectively communicate with the inspector. For example, many inspectors will assume that a private yacht over 24m will be in compliance with the Load Line convention. This will be true for a commercial yacht, but not necessarily for a private yacht. This simple checklist item can cause confusion and possible delays. As flag-state inspectors for multiple yacht registries, we try to impart our knowledge and experience through preparation. Because of requests by the industry, we now offer our SafeYACHT Program to yachts not already certified by IYB. If interested in more information, feel free to visit our website (www.yachtbureau.org) or contact us directly by email (survey(at)yachtbureau.org).
Edgar
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:39 PM
Joined: 28/03/2010
Posts: 2


We received the info on board as well, the most important change is that vessels must be ready for departure at all times. Which means no more skeleton crew and very important; no maintenance is allowed to be carried out which could prevent the vessel from leaving. So if you have work planned on generators, main engines steering etc, you must inform, in advanced, the flag state and the local port authorities, and get it approval on paper. Failing this will get you in trouble.
yachtone
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:53 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Yacht Expedition, [comment removed by moderator]  you don't even know that the Cayman Islands (your flag) are an UK registry and on the "white list". If you were a member of the PYA you would have had e-mails on this subject and a resource to answer all your questions such as " If I don't have a MCA licence will I need a certificate of equivalence". I suggest you join up and pay your subs, learning as you go and relying on scuttlebutt wont work anymore.

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:47 AM
Betcha "Bamse" never had any of this trouble!!!
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:48 AM
YachtOne...if you had done YOUR research, you would see that the Paris MOU does NOT consider the Cayman Islands as part of the UK registry. If that were the case, they would also be considered an EU flag. The Red Ensign is a combination of several different British overseas territories, but they are not all under the same umbrella. Each are a separate flag with the Paris MOU. And the white list you reference is under the OLD system, not the new one. Under THETIS, only the UK and Isle of Man are considered low risk flags. Cayman and the others are standard risk. And how does paying dues to an old man's drinking club (PYA) that wants to unionize the industry make things all better? Because they sent an email? Wow, way to go PYA. [Comment removed by moderator]

Yacht Expedition
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:21 AM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


A lot of interesting posts today. And finally a source for onboard training. I am sending you an email tonight. Thank you. It is regrettable to see that some posts are very hostile. I didn't know people would be so offended when simply asking for advice. I'm glad that they were born such experts on everything. They must have breezed through oral exams? May I suggest that you, Mr. YachtOne, dial it back a bit. Being so angry, especially at unknown people on a blog is wasted energy. It's like TV. If you don't like it, don't watch. Rusty Wrench has a good point about the VESSEL being the one inspected. That is definitely true and really is the ultimate test in all of this. However, if you read through the THETIS procedure for how vessels are targeted, there are many factors (flag, class, managers, etc). Mr. Threepwood explained that very well. Simply completing the inspection does not make you a low priority ship. Only vessels registered with certain pre-approved flags can do that. I'm sure more will be added to the list, but as of now, there are only a few and only 3 yacht registries: IOM, UK, and Marshall Islands. It is very easy to say that is the quality of the captain and crew. Absolutely. But what about the unknowns? What do the inspectors focus on with yachts? They are not used to looking at us. What can we expect from them? Focus on the OWS or do they prefer the record book? Test my GMDSS equipment or make sure we have logged every radio entry in the logbook? All of it or none of it? A lot of questions to be answered.
chrismlewis
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 6:35 AM
Joined: 09/10/2008
Posts: 120


Any commercial yacht that has not had one of these inspections will be on the prioity list automatically. Once the initial one has been passed successfully then you will be ranked according to flag related risk rating. So changing your flag will be a waste of time. BTW, i think that Cayman counts as UK as far as this list goes, but may be wrong with that. there are companies advertising to do pre-survey evaluations to highlight any deficiencies. If the boat is in good order, all the pollution related gear working, paperwork being done correctly then you have nothing to worry about - if not, then this is a good thing, right? I am going to try and request our survey is done at the end of our present refit in Palma, but not sure if one can request it in advance...
Ayo
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:48 PM
Joined: 08/06/2010
Posts: 10


From Personal Experience. We have just finished such an inspection on board one of our vessels (58 Mt) with excellent results. The inspection was conducted professionally and does take into account variables on board and the nature of operation. As vessel is registered commercial and following strict ISM ISPS and risk assessment modules utilizing MVMSYSTEM software, the PSCO requested reports and written records to satisfy the regulations. The whole inspection was conducted in a very professional and respectable manor and included drills and inspection of pumps,emergency generator and other relevant equipment. Yes, if you are not keeping the standard at all time you will find yourself in trouble with the inspection and rightfully so. The system is there to inspect the safety, security and conditions on board meet the required standards. We also had a lot of support via our administration (Cayman) in terms of articles and suggested check list earlier in the year. If you require any advise or have any question on the process, please contact and we will be happy to advise.
Ayo
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:52 PM
Joined: 08/06/2010
Posts: 10


Some helpful Links http://mvmsystem.info/2011/04/paris-mou-and-the-thetis-european-inspection/
yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 5:01 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Yacht expedition it was you that used the term "condescending" when threepwood took the time and trouble to write a long and informative reply to your feigned ignorance ("Where is Cayman").

[comment removed by moderator]

 Anonymous; not wishing to sound condescending, I wrote "e-mails" where I should perhaps have written "regular bulletins by email with links to the relevant website" also I think you are confusing registry with customs area, have a nice day.<br>
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 6:52 PM
YachtOne, do you work for Cayman? It was a simple question that has you all bent out of shape. It is clear that they are not part of the UK registry under THETIS. Go look at the Paris MOU website. Says it right there. For Threepwood, he acknowledged his attitude, recognized the humor, and continued to add to the conversation, which was thanked for by the same person that made the original remark. Everyone was very civil and appreciative. You, on the other hand, apparently cannot receive criticism, especially when stating something that is wrong. [Comment removed by moderator] PS - excellent thread of information on the subject. Thank you Dockwalk for letting it run.
yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:17 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Gee anonymous, I didn't think that throwing the ops words back at him made me bent out of shape,[comment removed by moderator] Threepwood may still be laughing but I thought it was ungracious. My particular beef towards the op and yourself is that having been alerted to this situation by one of the PYAs bulletins he then goes on to disparage the PYA without any firsthand knowledge of what they do, and solicits on this website the information he would have had if he were a PYA member .
[comment removed by moderator]
I may not have all the answers available off the top of my head but I do know that changing registry from Cayman(or any other reputable flag) to Marshal will make no difference to whether your vessel is selected for inspection or not.
 And no I do not have any ties to any registry, can you honestly say the same?

Yacht Expedition
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 7:50 PM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


If I may jump in here and put the board back on topic. There appears to be a cage match going on between Anonymous and YachtOne. Enough boys. To keep the peace, I sincerely apologize to YachtOne for asking my peers an obviously stupid question that would have been answered if I had joined the PYA. OK now? Let's move on. Right, some more information at midday here. I was able to contact the IYB posting about training for my yacht. The program looks good and is reasonably priced. We are scheduled for next week. I will let the blog know how it goes. For changing flag, we are still looking at that as an option. We do not plan to exercise it yet, unless once we get to Europe, we see an increased number of visits by the local authority. As I remember from dealing with the USCG in the merch fleet, just because one office already inspected the ship did not mean that another could not do it again. Knowing that THETIS is at its beginning stages and the slowness that databases are updated, I would not be surprised if something like that happens. If you see the Paris MOU website, their monthly lists have not been updated since December!! Is that what they reference? Lastly, as I still have a boat to run and must get back to work, thanks to all for the continued input, especially Ayo for his recent real experience.
yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:55 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


INFORMATION: Using the links as advised by the PYA I have the following information for the year 2010. Cayman Islands vessels inspected = 93. Marshall  Islands vessels inspected = 786

Also the defect rate on MI vessels was about 50% higher than on CI vessels but this is not going to affect the chance of being inspected as all previously uninspected vessels will be listed for inspection, might be a good idea to get there early.

Yacht Expedition, no apology necessary for asking questions but I have paid several thousand dollars into the PYA coffers over the years just so we will have advice on these subjects and a voice (however small) when these regulations are formulated and am sick of people who make no contribution denigrating these efforts.
      My original response to you did have something for you to consider, we don't know your nationality or who issued your licence but if not a UK authority, even if you are an unlimited commercial master make sure you have a CI certificate of eqivalence and have the original of this onboard, this is one of the nits that have been picked.

yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:13 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Anonymous; I took your advice and went to the parismou website and on their latest ranking (2010) of black, grey and white lists, "Cayman Islands, UK." is still on their white list. Be careful who you insult when you want to spread misinformation.

Rusty Wrench
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:23 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


Yachtone, CISR do not issue C.E.C.'s they endorse C.O.C.'s issued by 'white list' countries: 

 

The following countries are STCW 1995 “white list” countries recognised by Cayman.

European Countries (27) Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Faroe Islands, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Serbia and Montenegro, Spain, Sweden, and the UK.

Non EU/EEA Countries (17) Australia, Canada, China (Hong Kong SAR), India, Iran, Jamaica, Malaysia, Myanmar, New Zealand, Pakistan, Philippines, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, Singapore, South Africa, Ukraine, and the USA.


yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:49 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Thanks for the info Rusty, do they physically endorse the CoC or just refer to acceptance. If the first its one of those details that needs attending to.

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:00 PM
Hey YachtOne. Congratulations on finding the Paris MOU website. Thank you for proving my point. The Cayman Islands is a SEPARATE flag-state according to the Paris MOU. As I'm sure you read, there are 5 separate flags listed for the Red Ensign: Cayman Islands, UK; Gibraltar, UK; Isle of Man, UK; Bermuda, UK; and the United Kingdom. That is the same for other countries with multiple registries. Denmark has Denmark and the Faroe Islands. China has China and Hong Kong. Same country, two different flag-states. Is this making sense to you yet? And whatever point you are trying to make between the Cayman Islands and Marshall Islands is lost. MI has over 2200 ships in their registry. Cayman has 280 ships. Your using old ship statistics to explain PSC targeting? What??!!
yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:14 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Well anonymous, the Cayman Islands UK maybe separate but they are still on the "white list", I am not trying to make a point I am just responding to your abuse and misinformation. I think it is you that works for a registry, you seem to know all about the Marshall Islands without having to refer to a website but still persist in spreading misinformation about the biggest yacht registry. I suggest you find another scam to get rich from why not try a Ponzi scheme. Confused readers should go to www.parismou.org

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:43 PM
HOORAH!!! YachtOne has finally seen the light, "the Cayman Islands UK maybe separate..." Glad to see you come around and flip your previous remarks. It only took 5 postings. No one said anything about Cayman NOT being on the white list. The original question asked why Cayman was not listed on the NEW low risk ship list, while the UK and Isle of Man were. YOU declared very strongly, wait, let me quote your eloquent prose..."you don't even know that the Cayman Islands (your flag) are an UK registry and on the "white list"." You were in such a hurry to bash a fellow yachtie that you didn't bother to read what he was asking. I'm glad that you took your ritalin, calmed down, and came back to a calm state. Breathe. Ahh, that's better. And for my knowledge on flag-states, there is an amazing new website that provides such information. Give it a try. It's called Google. You'll be amazed at what you can find, even nudie pictures. LOL.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:45 PM
And that is what I call a condescending email!!! LOL.
yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:53 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


I will leave it to the readers to decide who has flipped his position.

Yacht Expedition
Posted: Sunday, May 1, 2011 10:29 PM
Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 28


I wanted to follow-up on my posting of the other week. We are not changing flags (yet). The boss wants to wait and see what happens first. A lot of money involved there and he's not sure it would be worth the cost. I agreed. But we definitely feel more prepared. We took that training class with IYB. Fantastic instructor. Unlimited Master with experience on ships and yachts. Gave us a bunch of information, maybe a little too much at some times, but certainly thorough. It was a 1-day class that could easily have been put into 2. Obviously THETIS is targeted at merchant ships, but IYB gave a yacht-level idea of what to expect, how the big ship rules affected us, and how to deal with the inspectors, if a problem develops. It may have been just a fear of the unknown, but the entire crew, me included, definitely learned a lot. At a minimum, it was a nice refresher on the regulations. That is something that gets missed in the annual flag survey. I will post more once we get to France.
IYB
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 3:36 AM
Joined: 17/05/2008
Posts: 10


Good day Capt. T, Thanks very much for your positive remarks on our training course. It was a pleasure to work with you and your crew. If you should have any issues with PSC in the Med, give us a call. Our survey station in Antibes is reopened for the summer season and ready to help. All the best.
conrad bagley boat services
Posted: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:39 PM
Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 4


Hi yacht expedition group, Where ever you go in the world, you will be inspected. I just delivered a yacht from Hong Kong to Carins Australia. We were inspected in the Philippiens (Subic Bay) Expect to pay $300.usd.total for in and out they were nice and friendly. We made three stops in the Phillies (great cruising). Next stop was Palau, Bueat spot.There you pay more because of it's world heritage listing.Still not a rip off. Then P.N.G. They were the only one's that inspected the boat no problems ,the lowest fees. Then Australia, they were friendly and profesional. You do have to pay $400. for Quarantine,but thats it. Go cruising, Regards, Conrad
marineengineering.us
Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2011 7:59 AM
Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 14


this is not a new regime. I have seen notices going up on the notice board of my own yacht and to be honest I find it embarrassing that the hierarchy are all of a sudden worried. If you are under class by a certified society then you will be inspected anyway, flag state also carry out inspections as do the management company if you are ISM compliant. What do you have to worry about unless your yacht/ ship is below standard and you are breaking the rules. The only difference with Port State is that you must make sure you are in compliance with any local state regulations on top of the IMO convention regs.
 
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