Welcome to the Dockwalk.com Forum

 

In order to post a comment in one of the forum topics, you must log in or sign up. Your display name will appear next to your posts unless you check the Post Anonymously box. When writing a post, please follow our forum guidelines. If you come across a post that you would like us to review, use the Report Post button. Please note the opinions shared in the forums do not necessarily reflect the views of Dockwalk.


RSS Feed Print
How do insurance company guidelines relate to Captains' experience
Coop
Posted: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:59 AM
Joined: 26/07/2010
Posts: 13


Where would one find out general guidelines insurance companies use for insuring yachts in relation to the Captain's experience?

I hear of mates moving through the ranks and getting the Captains position, but then I hear about insurance companies guideline restrictions about experience based on the length and tonnage. I understand each company will vary based on their underwriters, but is there a "general rule/scale" they use and where can you get information about it?

 I have had a US ticket for 11 years on vessels up to 120'. What sort of timelines on vessels as a Master and/or as a 1st Officer would one expect with my experience to move up in yacht size in the eyes of an insurance company?

Thanks to all in advance for their input.

Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:06 AM
Insurance companies don’t determine who is or is not qualified to master yachts, they simply set the premium and it’s whether or not the owner is willing to pay more or less for a specific captain.
Henning
Posted: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 1:53 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


As long as you have the required qualifications and the owner wants you, unless you have some bad record, they will just set the premium as the actuaries determine.

spencer
Posted: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 4:16 PM
Joined: 24/11/2010
Posts: 3


please ignore the prior comments. In general, I repeat in genral; underwriters ( who actually underwrite a risk & determine whether a Captain's history is acceptable for the vessel) look for a minimum of two years experience operating similar size vessels and prefer the Captain to have navigated in the waters where the vessel will be used. Anything more specific please call me & I will help. 561 262 1605 Spencer
junior
Posted: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 5:46 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Traditionally I would submit my resume , complete with references ,to the insurance company for approval in the region I was operating . At present, Each year the insurance company contacts me ...never to congratulate me on a job well done or thank me for no claims and wish me happy birthday ...but for ever more licensing details. It would be best if you contact the insurance company in person and investigate.
Coop
Posted: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:06 PM
Joined: 26/07/2010
Posts: 13


Thanks again for your help Junior.

Spencer, I may give you a call in the near future, your input is greatly appreciated.


junior
Posted: Thursday, November 25, 2010 8:48 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


I would be interesting to hear how you get along. Its a funny world, your American license is heavily restricted and requires various endorsements and sea time for different areas of operation, yet an MCA license appears to give the holder all ocean capability ? Ive often wondered how this could be ? My impression is that when you operate the " Milk Run " East coast US, Med, Caribbean you have all the qualifications required in the eyes of the insurance company. Since Im just a dumb sailor ,not a lawyer, I really have no idea what ..THE RULES ARE. As a result anytime the yacht leaves the MILK RUN I submit a cruise plan to the insurance company for comment. You would be surprised how many times Ive recieved a GONG !! Waite one minute Boy ! email, informing me that I must upgrade equipment or my ticket in order to be insurable for cruises that touch out of the way Nav Area's. I say dont believe anything anyone tells you and inquire with the insurance company directly. In the past they have saved me great embarrassment. And while your at it..please ask why my premiums always go up ? even though Im a good boy, Ive never filed a claim and the owner meticulously maintaines the yacht ?
chrismlewis
Posted: Friday, November 26, 2010 8:11 PM
Joined: 09/10/2008
Posts: 118


The phrase that I have heard frequently before is "recent, relevant experience", but some of things you see and hear you have to wonder if the time frame is measured in minutes or years.... I guess it comes down to a case by case basis. ie how much does the particular insurance broker/ underwriter want the business!
Coop
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 12:43 AM
Joined: 26/07/2010
Posts: 13


"...your American license is heavily restricted and requires various endorsements and sea time for different areas of operation, yet an MCA license appears to give the holder all ocean capability ? Ive often wondered how this could be ?..."

Yes, I agree.. I currently have a MCA Master of Yachts 200T ("Yachtmaster") and to get my "Oceans" endorsement, it is only a 6 day Celestial course. For the Oceans endorsement for my USCG Master 1600GT (ITC)/ 500GRT ticket, its is a 3 week Celestial course, and the MCA doesn't recognize the USCG Oceans endorsement for their COC dispite it being a little more in depth that the USCG requirements at the moment.  I find it interesting, but I don't make the rules, complaining and pointing out what one thinks what is right and what is wrong doesn't change anything. I'd rather be on the water than in politics, so I play by their rules, pay for the courses, sit in the classrooms, and get another certificate to add to my collection. All that and then see what the insurance man wants from you and then still charge more for a premium..

Junior, Thanks again for your input. I'll let you know how all the insurance premiums/coverage bit it goes. And If I find a buy-one-get-one free insurance premium deal, you will be the first I pass it on to.. But I won't be holding my breath for that one.

junior
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 8:36 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Yah Coop , and its a great idea to develop a friendly relationship with the big yacht insurance companies. Always have a gab at boat shows and stuff. You would be surprised at how many times over the years that insurance companies have given me valuable job leeds...Like..go talk to that guy, he has a problem that needs solving.
Chief
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 2:36 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"For the Oceans endorsement for my USCG Master 1600GT (ITC)/ 500GRT ticket, its is a 3 week Celestial course, and the MCA doesn't recognize the USCG Oceans endorsement for their COC ..."

 

If I were in your position I would take the courses required to get the oceans endorsement on my 500 ton USCG license and forget about the MCA. You have a professional license, upgrade the scope and use future sea time to upgrade the level so you have alternatives in the future.

 

You don't need an MCA ticket to work on yachts, and you certainly don't need to waste time and money taking yacht courses that will not provide you with the license you may need to get a job in the future. You don't need an MCA CeC and you shouldn't worry about what the MCA recognizes or doesn't.


Coop
Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 10:00 PM
Joined: 26/07/2010
Posts: 13


Chief,

Thanks for the input. Because of the great advice I received from you,  Junior, and others regarding my license direction, I chose to go with upgrading my USCG Master commercial ticket. I will be taking my exams in December this year then starting a USCG 3 week celestial course/exam in Jan for my Oceans endorsement as well licensing in the Cayman and Marshall Islands.

Previously, I followed advice from some individuals with MCA yachting tickets(who were not eligible for a US ticket based on their citizenship) with good intentions but were uneducated with USCG licensing, and I started up the MCA route. I invested about $4k in pursuing the MCA route, which I'd rather now have in my bank account, but feel it was well worth the education and the experience. I do know that the MCA oral exam route requires you to really know your stuff, and after going through a few of them, I really respect anyone who hold MCA tickets and had the examiners that I had despite the lesser required seatime for the MCA tickets. I know a number of USCG licensed captains with lower level licenses who would have never passed the MCA orals for an equivalent license.

Thanks again for all your advice!

Henning
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:59 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Coop wrote:
"...your American license is heavily restricted and requires various endorsements and sea time for different areas of operation, yet an MCA license appears to give the holder all ocean capability ? Ive often wondered how this could be ?..."

Yes, I agree.. I currently have a MCA Master of Yachts 200T ("Yachtmaster") and to get my "Oceans" endorsement, it is only a 6 day Celestial course. For the Oceans endorsement for my USCG Master 1600GT (ITC)/ 500GRT ticket, its is a 3 week Celestial course.

When did they start requiring a course? I just had to write an extra test module, took < two hours. Had to make my reduction form and do a three star running fix, Polaris, Sun and some extra bits. 20 or 25 questions was all it was. Didn't even require a Moon and that was for the 500/1600 GRT module. Celestial isn't difficult really even if it is pretty much superfluous anymore. Even the USN dropped it.

junior
Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 7:24 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


By all means keep your US ticket up to date . Its one of my greatest regrets...allowing my US ticket to wither in favout of MCA. And Ya , celestial is downplayed these days. Its a shame because numeracy , log entry , DR discipline and using tables is a good skill for any seaman. Its not necessarily about navigation. And have no doubt three weeks is still short if you expect to be proficient at the various techniques. I spent a whole college semester and still view myself as an amateur. HO 249 vs HO 208 ....time and date by celestial observation, running latitude, horizon grazing stars, perpetual almanac, ....plenty to learn and today if I had to use the techniques Id be fumbling, using up whole erasers and breaking pencil tips.
 
 Average 0 out of 5