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A Shocking Situation
Janine
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 3:00 PM
Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 392


Following is the September issue's What Went Wrong column by Kelly Sanford.

 

A dayworker was employed aboard a 100-foot yacht that had been hauled out at the shipyard. His task for the day was to secure a ladder that provided access to the forepeak below decks.

It was a fairly straightforward job; there were a number of other, bigger projects occurring simultaneously, so he was working alone.

 

While working in the confined space, the dayworker had reached over to tighten some nuts when he placed his hand on a nearby water heater. Unbeknownst to him, hard water had caused the elements in the water heater to short out. It was hot, and the dayworker had been working in a part of the boat that was not air conditioned. His shirt was soaked with sweat, which turned him into a perfect conduit between the shorted water heater and the aluminum ladder. To make an already bad situation worse, the breaker on the water heater had been both incorrectly sized and wired and did not trip. As if the circumstances were not bad enough, workers had forgotten to attach a ground wire when the boat was hauled. It was the worst situation possible.

 

Investigators had no indication exactly how long the dayworker sustained the shock (many minutes, anyway) before another crewmember found him. A source close to the incident – who asked that we don’t use his name, so we’ll call him “Foster” – says that the crewmember thought the dayworker was having a seizure and tried to render aid, at which point he too was badly shocked, thrown across the room and knocked unconscious. Another subcontractor working on deck said that he had heard shouts and “yodeling,” which led to the discovery of the situation below. Immediately, the crew shut off the main power breaker and contacted emergency medical services (EMS).

 

When the dayworker was brought on deck, the incident report states that those rendering aid could not find a pulse. “The odd thing is that when EMS arrived on the scene, they had to shock him to bring him back,”Foster says. Miraculously, the dayworker not only was saved, but also made a near total recovery in a few days.

 

“Really, this was just a freak accident,” Foster says. “I don’t think there is just one thing you can point to and say, ah ha, here’s the moral. But I think there is some real benefit in talking about that accident because there are a few lessons that can be taken from what happened that day.”

 

The captain and mate apparently knew there were systems on the boat that were questionable because they were not originally intended for a marine environment. Unfortunately, the owner was the type who just wanted systems on board to work…not necessarily to work to the highest standard. “It was a real wake-up call, because I think – especially when it’s early on in our careers – that we all have some experience working for an owner who puts the budget above safety,” Foster says. “Even after the incident, the owner made the bare minimum repairs and did not replace the wiring with a foolproof system.”

 

Foster cautions, “No job is worth getting yourself killed over. If the owner is unwilling to make safety a priority and you can’t convince them to make the change, then you have to have the sense to walk away. For me, I couldn’t stay with the boat. I did not trust the boat. I made a point of wearing foam-soled shoes every time I went into the engine room. I bought a pair of boat Crocs because I was worried about getting shocked. I thought, this is ridiculous and left.”

Foster continues, “Another lesson is just the reminder that the shipyard is a dangerous place. We tend to forget that, don’t we? We walk around the shipyard in flip-flops and ball caps. There’s a lot going on and important details don’t always get communicated.” Yard time is often looked at as “downtime” but the reality is that the shipyard is just as dangerous, possibly more so, than the open ocean and it’s no time to assume an informal attitude about your workplace.

 

As a final aside, Foster says, “When you talk about electricity and safety, it makes you stop and think. Most full-time crew know just enough about electricity to be dangerous. It’s ironic that we spend lots and lots of money on random safety items to pass inspections, but when it comes to the really dangerous things like working with electricity on a boat, it seems like we don’t consider that maybe we ought to spend a little extra money to have a professional do it right.”


yachtiebeware
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 6:44 PM
Joined: 18/08/2010
Posts: 4


This is another example of negligence and poof training badly injuring a crew member.  I understand that "Foster" does not believe that anyone was at fault and that this was just a "freak accident", but this far from the case if the article is accurate.  Apparently an under-qualified, albeit well meaning employee was put into a situation where equipment that was in poor repair and  not rated for marine use was not installed properly and resulted in an horrific injury of one man and a serious injury of another. 
  Why do we continue to protect the people who are responsible here. Why isnt the boat named, or the yard? I dont want to work in either, nor do I want my friends to.  It is so easy to loose sight of the fact that we in the yachting business really just look after toys for wealth people, we are not doing charity work or defending our nations, we work on toys, and no toy is worth dying for.  I am all in favor of maintaining the privacy and reputation of a boat, but that is not a one way street. If I am asked to put myself in harms way and not provided the necessary training or safety gear that is required for completing a job safely then the implied contract of protection is rendered null and void.  Yachting as far as I can tell answers to no safety regulatory body with any teeth whatsoever, and is primarily staffed my a very young transitory work force that have not enough experience to know how to stand up for themselves when they are asked to do something dangerous.   I appreciate that Dockwalk reports these items, but I have to ask "why the half measures?"  If you are here to provide news and helpful information and to be a resource tool for the professional yacht crew, then we need more from you, If Dockwalk is here just to provide pictures of crew having fun, that is fine, I suppose, but it seems a wasted opportunity. -Yachtie Beware

salty spanner
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:23 PM
Joined: 28/02/2010
Posts: 14


I couldn't agree more with Yachtiebeware's comments. NAME the yacht. NAME the yard. One of the (many) reasons I have just tendered my resignation from my current yacht is because of the complete lack of priority given to safety. We had a small engine-room fire recently but no drills have been initiated by the Captain. He is too young & in-experienced (read septictank's blog about being over your head) & is absolutely terrified of asking the owners for a day or two here & there (in the completely over-booked summer schedule) for some good old fashioned M.O.B./FIRE/A.S. drills etc. Budget is also a problem when we ask for extra safety equipment over the bare basics....so I'm leaving because accidents happen everyday & I'm not interested in having a permanent limp or losing my sight in one eye. I cannot understand the "shut-up & take it 'coz that's just the way it is.." mentality we have in this industry sometimes....? "Foster" should take his owners' attitude to the safety budget as a direct reflection of what his owner thinks he is "worth".
Matt
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:22 PM
Joined: 25/01/2010
Posts: 4


This article made me ask myself other questions: 1) Water Heater shorted, AC current, the breaker was probably not too small but certainly already fried or by-passed and the AC bus should have been tripping, don't you think? 2) and what is it with the mate and the Captain, knowing that the water heater was shorted and would probably trip other breaker, why was it on? A water heater element does cost that much either, no spare onboard? 3) who connected the shore power after the haul out? 4) Cleaning up an electrical installation for a mate or a Captain of a 100 ft yacht shouldn't be a problem, replacing a breaker shouldn't be a problem either, all this for less than 500 box! I remember meeting with officer of the merchant navy of different countries, they are all saying the same thing, there is not proper and efficient bridge officer that hasn't serve his time in the engineering department. If you need a contractor for this, you shouldn't be in charge of a yacht. So i am interesting to know more about the accuracy of the article, because if the boat has such a lack of maintenance i believe that the owner should also look at employing suitable mariners according to the demands his yacht has. and another way to look at it, 100ft yacht with all the systems that it is including should require an engineer if the Captain doesn't feel comfortable enough or is too busy with other task.
junior
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:34 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Youre quick to quote this Foster source and lay blame on the owner and yacht. The owner didn't neglect to electrically earth the ship when on the hard...the captain and the shipyard did. As for " non Marine" equipment being employed on the yacht...what is " non marine equipment " ? One of the challenges facing the captain of a technically complex 100 foot class yacht is the lack of a full time professional engineer. The captain must wear the engineers overalls . A dead simple daily task like verifying the phases, earth and suitability of a shore power connection are the responsibility of the captain, not the owner.. Does this captain also instruct dock boys at the marina to wire him into shorepower ? Perhaps Dockwalk should give this yachts stewardess a voltmeter and an a copy of Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual so that she may advise the captain on how to avoid further shocking mishaps. ...
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:52 PM

Salty Spanner, you call for dockwalk to name the yacht, then say you left a yacht becuase of the lack of concern for safety - well, why don't you name that yacht? Or even name yourself?  You don't do either becuase  you know no one will hire you if you did.

Its perfectly obvious why they can't name the yacht and yard. It's always great to name names until someone names yours...then it's not fair. did someone say lawsuit?


Matt
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 8:59 PM
Joined: 25/01/2010
Posts: 4


Good point Anonymous but not very constructive either. Junior i am directly with you on this on, i wanted to say it but didn't find the words. I do believe that the realty in this industry is that owner are badly advised by broker (not saying they are all bad) and a lot of Officers don't have the right training for their position. How a Captain can make safe decision if he doesn't know how to prevent accident by normal maintenance of the systems of the boat he is in charged of? That's will be a mystery for me until i retire i guess.
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:19 PM
Apart from the original story being told by a third person and has more holes than a rusty bucket. The owner is paying the crew, dayworkers, contractors and a shipyard he does not sound tight to me as a captain with nearly 20 years in yachting and several years commercial before that. I would suggest that this is a case of poor management on the captain's behalf.

Herb
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:20 PM
Joined: 21/05/2008
Posts: 14


STUPIDITY KILLS, shocking isn't it. This is not about the owner. This is about the wrong tools for the job. Not enough knowledge on hand at the job site which leads to the uniniatiated sticking thier paws where they should not be. It is not about yachting either, this happens all over the world at homes and work places. It is about a lack of awareness of ones surroundings. This water heater situation did not create itself and the owner from what I can gather did not personally install a oversized or defective circuit and make it leak and create a conductive path for the hapless though very lucky dayworker to close. If the situation onboard any vessel is unsafe, leave or call the insurance company and report it or both. That is only if the owner or the captain won't resolve the issue first.
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:22 PM
This type of incident is inevitable. Day worker or not this person was obviously unskilled and poorly supervised and the vessel poorly managed. As so often is the case it took several minor incidents to create the hazardous condition to arise and from what I’ve dealt with on yachts electrical hazards on domestic systems is typical. Fortunately no lives were lost; nevertheless an incident like this raises issues beyond safety. Liability, insurance and employment law; Clearly the magnitude of this accident would have escalated if a person or persons were killed and it was also found that the people involved were not supposed to be working as day workers, because they were doing so illegitimately. Such incidents will someday cause a ripple within the industry and set a precedence that leads to more strict control within shipyards. I have worked in a shipyard and know that it is prudent to perform a risk assessment before proceeding with any work, whilst also setting the workplace safety and environmental standards. Shipyards definitely have to pay insurance premiums and do compare risk against profit and this is precisely why so many shipyards control access to the work site. While unrelated, let’s not forget about sailboat fire at the STP shipyard in Palma. This incident involved day workers did it not???? Safety procedures diminish risk and risk assessments callout risk areas and sorry my friends but unskilled crew members and day workers performing tasks outside their normal duties is fraught with risk. Electrical safety, working aloft and access on and off yachts are three (3) big risk areas for shipyards because crew either don’t know what to do, have the wrong equipment or come back into the shipyard after hours in a diminished state (drunk) and fall off the boat or do stupid things with electric cars, forklifts and facilities.
yachtone
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:23 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Young and inexperienced captains are hired  exactly for these qualities, by owners of a certain mindset who want to cut corners and know that there is a great deal of pressure on captains not to quit a job early and also not to say anything negative about past or present employers. It is this career pressure that allow a MINORITY of owners to get away with this disregard for safety & the rules and regulations knowing that their captain will take the fall  if or when the excrement hits the fan.

Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:37 PM
First its a blessing that the young man survived and I am glad to hear that there was a happy ending for him. I think "yachtone" is on the right track. I have witnessed some of my ex deck crew that had pretty good experience on deck but no engineering experience step into the captains position on 80 to 100ft boats. I have witnessed many other crew do the same and have been very surprised when meeting people on the docks that advise me they are the captain on boat xyz and they appear to be just old enough to buy beer. The owners of this size range of yachts are able to have a guy be his gopher and work his stern off and in return they give them a title of captain and they run there boat. These kids in there 20's are not ready to be responsible for such a high priced asset that can kill in many different ways. The owners are getting a captain at a crazy discounted rate and using them from running there boat to washing there cars. Shame on the insurance companies for even allowing the owners to operate at such a risk and liability for both the boat, crew, guests and others around at sea or in the shipyards. The captains are inexperienced and are easily directed by the owner who in most cases has no formal training and it is a recipe for accidents. Are these captains really captains or just puppets of the owners trying to get there start and move up the command ladder in a fast paced manner just like todays society supports. These guys have no engineering skills of any great magnitude and i am sure they do what they can but its not enough. Its only a matter of time on all the boats that are cutting corners and running with guys that are not experienced enough. Its just a blessing these guys lived and didnt end up like the engineer on the big bad john years back. And for the record when speaking about the owner of the boat please don't use the term "my owner" when describing the boat owner. Your not his slave you are your own person he doesnt own you!!
yachtiebeware
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:46 AM
Joined: 18/08/2010
Posts: 4


  First I want to address Juniors comments. If you are unaware that different electrical equipment is rated for different uses, including - commercial, residential, and yes marine, then I do hope that you are in no way responsible for any of the electrical equipment on your boat, in addition, if the captain is unqualified to act as the engineer, particularly in the yard, HIRE AN ENGINEER.  I understand that everybody involved probably feels real bad but that doesnt mean that there wasnt a chain of bad decisions and negligence that led to this.  When something like this happens this industry has got to stop brushing it under the carpet and say oh well it was just an accident.  It wasnt an accident at all. A tree branch falls on your windshield, that is an accident, a shorted ungrounded water heater, and aluminum ladder and a salty water is basically a kit for electrocution. This type of work should be at the very least supervised by a qualified engineer, and any developed nation with work standards in place will tell you the same. Dont take my word on it, look at the florida electrical code, or the O.S.H.A./N.I.O.S.H. regulations that apply to all work environments in the U.S.
  We can bicker about all of this all we want, but the fact is, crew are getting seriously injured at an alarming rate, and clearly common sense isnt getting the job done, and it is time we take regulations put into place for all of the other trades into place to protect ourselves, as it seems no one else is doing it for us.
-YachtieBeware

Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 2:45 AM
For your information Yachtiebeware, The US are not the center on the yachting industry. A lot of yacht do not come in yards in the US for those very reasons you mentioned. I do know a lot of yards in the world where you can get the right job done. However, the rules are just here to be the frames of a safety scheme. The training of our officers is more important as well as their liabilities. Captain that crash boats and injure their crew and owner and are given another command in the next 24 months is an unacceptable fact and far too real, happening far too often. Captain that cannot see nor understand the status of their boat system shouldn't be Captains. Furthermore, if the Captains of the 100 feet class yachts are not comfortable with their engineering understandings, i'd like to have someone explaining me how he can make safe decision, even with the help of an engineer. Captains have the finale words, the ultimate power... This why every merchant navy officer in command have serve their time in the engineering department. It is all coming back to the same starting points, education, training, responsibility, liability!
yachtiebeware
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:25 AM
Joined: 18/08/2010
Posts: 4


I am well aware that the US is not the center of the world, it is how ever what I know the most about, so that is what I am most comfortable talking about, and if you think bashing me for being unfamiliar with all the regulations in the world makes it OK for fellow yacht workers to get electrocuted I really have no response, but I do know that Europe has equally as stringent regulations if not more so. 
  My point is and has been through this thread that too many unqualified people are being asked to do too many things they should not be doing, in addition to the fact that safety inspections and regulations are far too lax and I am hearing about my coworkers being injured or killed every week.  I want better protection and smarter work environments for all of us, so I would prefer to keep the petty nationalism out of this.-YachtyBeware

junior
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:17 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Many times captains completely trust a subcontractor to install or service a piece of equipment. This is a mistake . I note many installation errors by recommended contractors...particularly when the the installation crosses two distinct disciplines...mechanical engineering and electrical engineering. This past winter I had an AC hydraulic power pack replaced by a hydraulic contractor. Very straightforward job, virtually a plug and play replacement . After the installation was complete I was throwing the packing box's away, collecting the documents and sorting thru all the " Extras" that are typically supplied with new gear like, fastenings , crimp on connectors and whatnot and noticed a braided...grounding Strap. Equipment that is isolated from earth by rubber mounts and rubber hydraulic hoses leave no discharge route for electrical current. The equipment must have a grounding strap to the ships hull or earth plane. I grabbed the strap, gave the contractor a call and he tells me...we never use them, not necessary ? Hmmm, thats not what the installation instructions tell me. Im not an engineer I simply follow the instructions when installing gear and note how many times the" Pro's " take shortcuts
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:30 PM
Well well well, I was wondering when somebody would write about this. Janine where did you get all your info? Why your story now? "Foster" obviously doesnt know jack about what happened, and to all you others who wrote posts....maybe wait for the real story to come out before you write comments that have no value. Dont you just love the yachting industry? Jump on and have your say whatever the truth. I am alive and well and still working on a yacht in the Med....but thanks for the comments, they really made me chuckle even though the accident ( and it was just that an accident) happened 19 months ago.  Janine if you want the real story from the survivor....contact me personally.

Thanks Lucky Dog

Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:43 PM
I'm so glad the actual injured crew member stepped up to put you all in your place.

I too was involved in an accident on a boat within the last 12 months, and injured quite badly. All of you people fed on it and gossiped and judged when you had no idea what the truth was. Someone even went so far as to say we deserved what we got. When in truth I have never worked on a safer boat, never worked on one more dedicated to drilling and safety knowledge. That's why we drill, because shit happens. And in my case, we knew how to deal with it.

I recently sat in a yachtie bar and listened to another yachtie tell me all about our accident, not knowing that I had been involved. He apparently "knew someone who was there" and proceeded to fill me in on all the incorrect "details" about what happened. I didn't bother to correct him, other than to say he really shouldn't be gossiping so.

My broken bones tell a story, but I'm not about to share it with you people.

Dave
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:53 PM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


A dayworker? Lucky Dog, I thought you were crew on the boat? This is a classic example of poor reporting, pathetic. Dockwalk should be "shocked" that this type of unverified rubbish is allowed. We now have people commenting on something that has been skewed to create sensationalism. Wrong tools? Stupidity? Poor training? I think Foster is the issue here, get your facts straight before you open your beak. Lucky Dog, beers in San Remo on the 10th? 
yachtone
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:20 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Well it sounded like a parable right from the start. There would have been a report to Flag State, right Lucky dog?
           Janine may be able to find out the true facts from the inquiry, with Lucky dogs assistance of course. The other gentleman who does not wish to talk about his accident does not help us learn anything from it but once again the FACTS should be in the Flag state report, maybe we can learn something from it.
           Good to see people against making judgement before the facts are known, but we do need to know the facts.

junior
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:35 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Lucky Dog, no need to recount your rather insignificant and sad life story. Crew would learn nothing new. The purpose of this Dockwalk What Went Wrong blog is to educate crew that its critical to Electicaly bond a vessel when it comes out of sea water, a natural earth, and is placed on wood blocks, isolated from earth, in a concrete parking lot. Once crew understand this they will also unserstand why many well run shipyards remove an anode, then bolt a big copper earthing cable onto its lug. Now you know Lucky Dog. This cable is not installed to keep the vessel from blowing away in the wind, its to electically earth the vessel.
Dave
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:48 PM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


Come on Junior, you don't even know the guy and you are saying he has a sad and insignificant life? That post was below your normal standard...... you recieve a 3/10 for that. As he said, the report is horribly scewed. On another note, the boat has to be grounded, correct there and VERY important.
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:25 PM
Junior, hate to say this mate...Buut you are very opinionated and I can picture you on your private boat passing all the accounting onto your owners accountant...and spending most of your time in a yachtie bar being the know all whilst holding up your personal side of the bar.....with all the newbies standing by with big eyes listening to Captain know it all. And all the seasoned experienced yachties all knowing who you are. Get a grip and take a break from commenting for a while....seems your owner does not use his boat much.......even Henning takes a break now and again.
JakeG
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:56 AM
Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 22


If we are done with the insults and name calling, it would be nice to get back to the point of this whole topic. Even if Foster’s details are off in accuracy the moral is 100% accurate. Shipyards are a dangerous place where important details do get overlooked or miscommunicated with dangerous consequences. It would be nice if all a captain had to do during a yard period is supervise and make sure that others were doing their jobs right, but that’s almost never the case. In the yard, everyone needs to have an extra eye out for the details ESPECIALLY SAFETY. Double, triple, quadruple check everything.
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:30 AM
Junior you have a big mouth...amongst other things, you still comment and you have no idea what happened.....WTF, who said the vessel was not earthed you ignorant chop?? That fact probably saved my life and prevented me becoming a pile of ash....It still is possible to get shocked on a vessel that is grounded.....or didnt they teach you that in Engineering 101 for Junior....the whole story from Janine has holes in it....which is what I was trying to say in the beginning. Get your facts straight before you comment, and to comment about me personally I take very seriously, maybe we should meet face to face!! LD

Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 2:44 PM

Lucky dog, could you be kind enough to reveal the real story? You said further up above that we should "wait for the real story to come out." Well it's been 19 months and this is the yachting industry folks...the real story WILL NEVER come out. Evrything in this industry is hushed up - no one talks about anything properly and then those affected get really offended when people gossip about them. But unless you're willing to speak up you're just adding to the gossip. Every incident is reduced to gossip as there are is nothing else to go on. All dockwalk had to go on was another crewmember's version of the story, even that was anonymous and no mention of the yard or yacht - how do you verify something like that?

I agree with JakeG's post above about what we can learn from this. At the end of the day, two people got hurt. Jake's right about shipyard safety...but if there is another lesson from this, please share the details. When you do that, the gossip stops and the learning begins.


Kelly
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:41 PM
Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 40


Though Janine is the editor who posts What Went Wrong in the Forum, I am the one who writes it. I can assure you that “Foster” is qualified to speak to the situation. The thesis for What Went Wrong is to take a look at first hand accounts of situations where things went terribly wrong and to open a dialogue ( and maybe a few eyes ) as to how similar events can be prevented. These stories are not set forth as intensely investigated fact finding missions to assign blame and punish offenders, but because that tends to happen on this forum from time to time, some people with important stories to tell are reluctant to tell them without permission to withhold telling details. When a story has an important lesson, and the one coming forward wishes to protect the reputations of the innocent from a guilty charge in the court of public opinion, I allow them to conceal telling details which sometimes means making modifications so others cannot come along and reveal guarded information. At the same time, it is very common when you have multiple first hand witnesses to a stressful event, each will experience the situation very differently and recount the story from their own perspective - particularly when doing so more than a year later. Lucky Dog, if indeed Foster is telling your story, rest assured that Foster was just as worried about protecting your identity as he was that of himself, his friends, and the boat; he is someone you likely consider a friend. If you would like to put some polish on the details Foster gave me and you think those details will enhance the intended message, I am happy to do that, and you can reach me by sending contact information to my editor, Janine@dockwalk.com. Keep in mind, this is an open forum where people are encouraged to voice their opinions, and you may or may not like what readers have to say. Ideally, at this point we can navigate back on course and get back to a more constructive and less personal discussion about important safety considerations when doing day-work or yard-work. As a personal aside, it is very easy for someone to sit down and talk about their shining achievements, it takes some real stones for someone to come forward and talk about a day they would rather forget in order to set a learning example for others. This forum would be so much better if we could all keep that in mind when reacting to the stories told here.
Dave
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:03 PM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


Janine, who is Foster?

Secondly, if I fell off the passerelle, and 19 months later it was reported that I had fallen on to the Vsat dome from a helicopter, I would also be a little chipped. This is an example, before anyone chimes in that noone mentioned a heli or a passrelle.

Thirdly, if I had some clown who then started making assumptions about my skydiving skills based on that terrible report and then commenting on it on dockwalk, I would be even more chipped.

I think this is a wonderful forum and somthing we can all learn from. However, you need to VERIFY these "What went wrong" things first. You also reported incorrectly on Don and Natalies experience - YES, I KNOW THEM BOTH, and on the Essence sinking, and YES I KNEW GINA, HER FIANCEE AND THE CAPTAIN.

Stop trying to get your sensationalism from Waxys and follow the Triton to Washington, where they are presenting a united voice to improve our industry.

Henning must be away on a trip.

D

 


Dave
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:10 PM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


Foster says that Lucky Dog was a day-worker.... I am under the impression that Lucky Dog was crew...... if Lucky Dog was indeed a crew member, then Foster is wrong in that regard, and therefore we can assume that everything else Foster has to say is absolute BULL. What are the chances of Foster stepping up and verifying this, or has he left the industry to go into real estate?

D


Kate Lardy
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:45 AM
Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 22


Regarding the accuracy of previous reporting mentioned by Dave, the report on the S/Y Essence came entirely from the USCG report and an interview with the investigating USCG officer. Regarding Don and Natalie, the extent of Dockwalk reporting on that incident was simply that a boat had burned near Cape Florida on April 6. That was all we reported, precisely to avoid sensationalism. If you have concerns over inaccurate news reporting please email me directly at kate@dockwalk.com. Thanks.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:38 AM
Hey Dave, you broke the code. You should never name names. Boat names, maybe, but not crew, you don’t air out others dirty laundry. Loose lips, Dave. Hey Dave, I read the Essence story too. I also read the link to the USCG/ DHS documents which were mentioned in the article and posted on this website in 2009 as well as another Junior suggested. You know something different, do you? For someone who professes to be such a stickler for details, you don’t even know who writes these articles. Here’s a hint, Dave. It’s not Janine. If you are convinced that Foster has his facts so totally wrong, and since Foster knows the code and did NOT disclose any revealing personal information but stated the important points as he experienced them, in the absence of having those “facts” which you hold in such high regard, have you even paused for a moment to think that he may be talking about a totally different incident than the one you claim to know so much about? You’re worried about improving our industry are you? Less talking Dave, more thinking Dave. Loose lips…they are bad. In us they trust.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:15 AM
Janine/Kelly, I will email you in time, Im busy on a 10 day charter. Re: Foster, if he is a friend of mine or even crew at that time maybe he can email me direct, Im sure it wont be hard for him to find my email add as I too was crew at that time, the vessel was going through a crew change at that time of Dec 2008. He could not have been there as the person who was helping me (new crew  member I was working with....no I was not working alone) was the one who got shocked when he touched me....not thrown across the room and knocked unconscious and certainly not injured, he helped me get out of the confined space I was in.....yes I was still conscious after several mins of being shocked, maybe not aware of what was going on but I remember everything about the incident until I past out in the crew mess floor and woke up in ICU.
Ask Foster to please email me! Thx LD

Henning
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 5:06 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Well, kinda, sitting in Tokyo waiting for my flight to SFO, but I read this from the beginning and didn't have enough information to make a comment. Been zapped enough times to think to myself "Oww, that would have sucked" though. Most of these situations (the ones posted in this thread) have glaring issues. This one didn't, and the story didn't read right either. Only issue I could see is a common one on many boats and that is lack of ground fault/RCD breakers in critical circuits.
Dave
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:42 AM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


Anonymous wrote:
Hey Dave, you broke the code. You should never name names. Boat names, maybe, but not crew, you don’t air out others dirty laundry. Loose lips, Dave. Hey Dave, I read the Essence story too. I also read the link to the USCG/ DHS documents which were mentioned in the article and posted on this website in 2009 as well as another Junior suggested. You know something different, do you? For someone who professes to be such a stickler for details, you don’t even know who writes these articles. Here’s a hint, Dave. It’s not Janine. If you are convinced that Foster has his facts so totally wrong, and since Foster knows the code and did NOT disclose any revealing personal information but stated the important points as he experienced them, in the absence of having those “facts” which you hold in such high regard, have you even paused for a moment to think that he may be talking about a totally different incident than the one you claim to know so much about? You’re worried about improving our industry are you? Less talking Dave, more thinking Dave. Loose lips…they are bad. In us they trust.
 
Son, if you drew your inspiration for getting into yachting from Pirates of the Caribbean, I strongly suggest you reevaluate yourself. As Capt Barbosa stated, "Its not really a code, more of a guideline" My advice to you is to try and concentrate on getting your first season under your belt, then come back here and comment. Now run along, lad.
 
Just as an added thought, the lead into this "article" was that a dayworker - this is incorrect - was 'electrocuted' - also incorrect, as he is very much alive and well. Have a wonderful week all.


junior
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 11:31 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


..."Junior you have a big mouth...amongst other things, you still comment and you have no idea what happened.....WTF, who said the vessel was not earthed you ignorant chop " Err Emm...I can read ...."As if the circumstances were not bad enough, workers had forgotten to attach a ground wire when the boat was hauled. It was the worst situation possible. " As far as reporting quality and naming names....who cares ? The purpose of the story is to highlight potential dangers and make crew aware. The article accomplished its objective.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:47 PM
So in which case Junior, why not make stories up for people to learn from? Hearsay does nothing to teach us anything, especially once it has been discredited. This story does nothing to teach anyone anything other than to get their facts straight before printing.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 1:56 PM

Dave: Definition of electrocution: to cause injury or death by electric shock. Yes, someone was injured through electric shock - therefore he was electrocuted. "was electrocuted" does not mean is dead.


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:13 PM

Personally, I felt the interesting part of this article was Foster's lack of trust in the saftey aspects of the boat.  (I could care less if details that weren't important to the story were changed,  like making a crewmember a dayworker, which I think the author did on purpose to protect to protect everyone's identity)

 

I agree wholeheartedly that you have to go with your gut feeling as a crewmember or I guess even a captain. I left one boat where I didnt feel comfortable or safe and the boat had a accident later.


Dave
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:30 PM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


Anonymous wrote:

Dave: Definition of electrocution: to cause injury or death by electric shock. Yes, someone was injured through electric shock - therefore he was electrocuted. "was electrocuted" does not mean is dead.

Errr, you might want to list a legitimate source that I can reference. American Heritage and Websters dictionaries define it as DEATH by electricity. So does the Free Dictionary. OED too. Bear in mind, my apparently highly educated friend, that if your source include the words "winningest" "thunk" as in "who would have thunk it, "bestest" and "thru", it will not be accepted as evidence.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 5:21 PM
I have read this article and managed to keep quiet so far but now I feel that I have to weigh in Before the job was started a risk assessment should have been done also a permit to work should have been obtained if the work was to have been done in a confined space ,a stand by guy should have been there in case the worker got into difficulty all of these things are standard on any boat which has ISM any boat which does not have a safety program should be avoided These check lists are not rubbish they save lives and protect owners from huge negligence lawsuits which can happen when the injured parties lawyer realise what happened On the subject of ground fault interrupters I am afraid Henning is wrong on this one usually he seems to be right high praise from an engineer anyway ships and boats are wired with an insulated neutral system which allows critical systems to remain powered up if a fault occurs this allows critical equipment to remain active and will show a ground fault these should be addressed as and when they occur in a perfect world but invariably there will be a few especially on a big boat therefor at sea or in the yard we have to be very careful as there are no gfi s to save our asses
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:28 PM
Here we go again, this industry really is full of people who have nothing better to do that 'gossip' and enhance rumours no matter what the circumstances. I said the original story from Foster was full of holes, and look at the comments!!!! WTF...are your lives that boring that you have to create something out of nothing??? Therefore all your comments about it are bull! Junior, this means that even though the quote from Foster said the vessel was not grounded....that statement is untrue....so your comment doesnt warrant for shit. It was grounded/earthed for the last f....g time. I was not working alone either...so that statement is untrue. I was the mate onboard so was not new and I knew nothing about faulty systems onboard so there is another false statement from Foster and I have several years in yachting not to mention a 4 year degree in Electrical Engineering, so I think I knew what I was doing. The Capt was experienced and my friend. I was working in the hull of the vessel below the crew mess tighting some loose bolts.....far away from a ladder...oh my another wrong fucking statement from Foster. It was a very confined space and my left arm touched the water heater contacts on the inside of the elbow...not my hand and as I was lieing on my back I provided a perfect line of conductivity to the metal hull, I was shocked (not electrocuted, that means you died you morons) for around 6 mins before I was found as the person on the other side of the bolts stepped away for a moment . AND THATS THAT! Foster stand up and take a bow....you are the one to blame for all this bullshit. What qualifies you to speak about what happened to me without really finding out the truth...from me, get the story first hand and then get permission to jabber to DW about it! This was an accident ....that couldve been prevented by maybe me.....not doing the easy job I was asked to do, tightening some loose bolts. There was no inquiry or lawsuit and the yard (major one at that) is still in business, why... because shit does happen! Why do you think it is all behind me and forgotten!!!!  Janine name your source please because no friend of mine would speak to you about this without my consent lest give you permission to write about it! LD

Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:59 PM
Well said.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:34 PM

LD, have you stopped to think that perhaps this is not the same story as yours. Perhaps more than one yacht has had a water heater that has shorted out?

 


Dave
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 9:39 PM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


Anonymous wrote:

LD, have you stopped to think that perhaps this is not the same story as yours. Perhaps more than one yacht has had a water heater that has shorted out?

Good point. Only one way to find out. Foster, come out, come out, where ever you are.

 



junior
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 9:44 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Oh Mercy Mercy Me....this anonymous guy, the one with the 4 year degree ? , He may very well have been the crew member who was on the wrong end of a powerful electrical discharge. He cant put together a paragraph without a string of profanity and was zapped into believing that the What Went Wrong blog entry was about him. Electricity is potent stuff, just listen to that guy mumble. Bet is hair stands on end without the need for hair gel. Wonder if its permanent ? Sad really because it would have been much more productive if the line of comment had ignored his dubious 15 minutes of fame and concentrated instead on teaching every deckhand or any crew who may be responsible for plugging a yacht into shorepower or using a power tool in the marine environment, what a Ground Fault Interrupter on the shore connection dock box does , how it does it, how to spot that the power source is protected by a GFI and how to test that it really works. http://bluesea.com/files/resources/technical_briefs/Technical_Brief_AC_Ground_Faults.pdf
Dave
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 9:54 PM
Joined: 22/06/2008
Posts: 18


Good link Junior.


yachtone
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 5:26 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


LD thanks for the facts, of course there is a lesson here, those contacts should have been covered to prevent accidental touching, I doubt (but not definite) that the yacht was built that way.

Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:15 PM
Profanity....Wow thats a big word for a Junior, do you know what it means? Yes of course people I thought about it being another incident....too similar and without Fosters verification on a few facts I have to believe it is the same accident that I spoke about the first time I commented on, I hope to personally hear from Foster via Janine as requested very soon.

I was asked by several people to tell the real story, I did shortly putting emphasis on a few valid points that were incorrect, there are many more, So sorry if I mumbled on for longer than your 'short span of attention' requires to stay focused, Junior. You attack me personally from behind your laptop in another country while eating donuts and drinking Diet Coke, when all Im trying to do is put a few facts straight on an accident you obviously knew nothing about. Be a man and say what you have to say about me and my life to my face. A few other comments from other people also suggest that you speak to much, why dont you listen or is that too hard for your small boring mind. Oh by the way if it was fame I was looking for I would have followed in your footsteps with 600+ posts already (Wow you must be so experienced and qualified), do you have a life Junior? Is that all youre good for? Making comments on false statements and then quoting/referencing stuff to make your comments sound exciting like you actually know what you saying.....good for you! This is an adult blog so if there are a few swearwords that offend you....well sorry I dont give a shit! Grow up, get a life and stick to the facts, that would be the most useful thing you have done on this current blog, maybe someone can then actually learn something from you!

Your boss wants to go fishing, why dont you take him in your 'boat' captain Junior, Im sure you know all the best spots.....one day you will be a senior! Lucky Dog

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:45 PM
Well said Dave and LD, The truth brothers. Short witty and wise.
 
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