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B1B2 or tick, tick boom for day workers
Septic tank
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2010 9:30 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


Let’s see where the laws being pushed and opposed in Arizona go. Florida is very much in support of these or similar laws and the probability of a restriction, if not complete black ban on accommodating people lacking the right to work in this country when they are doing exactly that is well overdue. So where and what happens to the humble “DAY WORKER”. I suspect this house of cards we call Professional Yachting” will begin to topple as it is re-structured according to prevailing economic, socioeconomic and political circumstances. Not so long ago the concept of open borders and shared economies was what everyone desired. The terrible events of 911 and the recent economic woes of Greece and the European Union have prompted world leaders to rethink the value of open borders and shared economies. Everyone wants to protect themselves and be in absolute control of their economy and the concept of the day worker and very large yachts which are uninspected yachts entering and leaving the United States is very quickly becoming obsolete. If I were responsible for Homeland Security I’d probably be more concerned about yachts, their contents and the individuals working on them then the authorities are today. As a Septic Tank I don’t wish to close my world off from the rest of the world but in all actuality the world is not what it could have been and many have already paid the price for failing to regulate the entry and exit of persons associated with a transport industry and or educational system. At the very least Maritime Colleges should be checked and monitored because an angry person could pack a yacht with a good amount explosive very easily and it only takes one week to become qualified in yachting. So for you Antipodeans, Europeans and whoever else its tick, tick boom for you and the ease by which you come to my country.
kapt_mark
Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2010 11:26 PM
Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 82


Speaking as an ex pat dual US/Uk citizen, I would say that your jingoistic fear of a 'yacht packed full of explosives' are fairly f-ing ridiculous compared to the probable relative ease of a semi trailer full of said incendiaries/ high explosives/ dirty bomb/ improvised (what the IRA called nail bombs) being home made or driven across a land border.

Yes, wealthy foreign owned yachts do stop in the evergaldes area (snot liquered-ale) for a while and spend sh£t loads of money, that does not given floridians the right to tie thier hands. Most go to the caribbean,med or else where and only stop in hicks ville as a benefit for all concerned.

As to visas, just look at all the ex pat antipodeans who live in places like mallorca or antibes for decades with out porblems. I speak with many new crew at the start of the summer season who say,' o, america, you need a visa to go there, but they are quite happy not to bother worrying about it in the UE (thats the Euro zone economies for y'all who grew up with a map of the USA on your skool rum wall as opposed to a map of the world).

So, pick on the bottom of the yachting food chain all you want, and lets see what the various governments do in what they like to call reciprocity.

I am not an economist, but from what I have been able to understand from what I have been heraing in the last few years is that policies such as 'islandisation and protectionism' dont work. Just look at the 1930's, the great depression, the rise of Hitler and Mussolini. (They were European dictators, you can probably rent a movie about it).

Most modern leaders are trying to build trade bridges, not burn them.








junior
Posted: Sunday, August 8, 2010 6:48 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Ya Septic, the yachtworld house of cards is gradually folding into the poo poo tank. Feel sorry for young people entering the industry now....tough world to navigate.. Ever since yachting went industrial strength and the EU went Schengen with digital passports , the "High Water level Black water tank " alarm has also been sounding over here. For example, in Spain, after the Christams break I motored the yacht over to the shipyard so a crane could remove the boom. Had two Spanish crew helping me out. Got to the yard bright and early then dug into it. Took a lunch break with the gang and after the last cafe con leche was finished I went for the check with a ...lets get to work guys.... My Spanish crew looked at me and said...Hey, you crazy !!...dont you know ? Know what ???? Well the young spanish girl who was my crew is the niece of the Port Police Chief and she told me that at 1500 the Port Police were going to lock the gates of the shipyard ,with everyone inside, round them up and inspect all paperwork from workers. Seems the local contractors filed a complaint about the army of Australian " crew" dayworkers illegally working inside the yard and as a result if we returned after lunch we would simply spend the afternoon in the Port police office presenting paperwork. Yes indeed..tic tic Boom.... things in yachting are changing. The most important change affecting my situation is Croatia entering the EU. For many years I kept my papers and the ships papers clean by leaving the Schengen area and cruising Croatia for the summer months. Once Croatia enters, the door slams shut. . Two or three more years and either you convince the owner to spend his summer months grinding sand and camel dung between his teeth while cruising the lovely North African coast or your Black water tank will overflow.
Septic tank
Posted: Sunday, August 8, 2010 12:08 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


I completely agree Junior; my previous yacht was based in South Florida and rarely moved. For non-American crew this meant leaving the country every three (3) to six (6) months depending on how their visa was stamped or not stamped upon entry. On two separate occasions Customs and Immigration at Miami airport called the boat to confirm that people were joining the yacht, definitely a pre-alarm for those who think they can falsify a boats letter and gain entry into the United States. Whilst in New England the USGC made a special visit to the boat because we changed our passage plan too often. During the visit passports, visas and the crew / guest list was closely scrutinized, along with our bridge logs, garbage record book and the oil record book. Thinking the current status quo is going to last forever is somewhat naïve. The only true constant in life is change and staying ahead of the game is not only prudent, but absolutely necessary. It is doubtful a yacht will be stuffed with explosives and blown up in a major marina filled with VIP’s and general public. Having said that who would have predicted the rapid increase of international and domestic terror? Perhaps a yacht has not been used as a weapon because the passive controls already exist? I am absolutely certain Homeland Security have measured the risk associated with private and commercial yachting within the United States, formalized a strategy to diminish risk and respond to an incident. Security, immigration and taxation are three (3) issues with legitimate grounds for reform. Fortunately for me I work on an “American Flagged Yacht”, pay tax and benefit greatly from working legitimately. The irony of all this American’s complain about not being treated fairly on “Foreign Flagged Yachts”, and yet Americans prefer to work on “Non-American Yachts”, so they can avoid or at least diminish their tax. This fly’s in the face of all the previous forums that complain about people working in the USA and not paying tax. Because I spend over 330 days away from American I get virtually all my tax back and achieve exactly what knuckle head American crew achieve by not declaring their income. I suspect there is more than one American Yachtie that’s in deep with the IRS. Nobody wants to close borders, reduce international trade and isolate themselves from the world, but regulation of security, immigration and taxation is inevitable. The only question is how it is integrated and whether it will change the way we do business.
junior
Posted: Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:02 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Shiver me timbers Septic...you been chipp'n rust in that tank far to long... get some fresh air or you'll come down with a permanent case of the vapors. The reason Americans sail on Foreign flag yachts is because they have no choice . I haven't seen a Stars and Stripes all year..... Only these creepy Marshal Island rigs. Banish these creepy flags and bring back the Stars n' stripes I say
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 9, 2010 1:12 AM
Flying a national flag like the USA on any vessel of size, yacht or commercial, is impossible. Too expensive and too litigious. If the Jones Act did not exist, there would no US flag vessels. That's why open registries like the Marshall Islands and Bahamas were created. Numbers 3 and 4 in the world coincidentally. 1 and 2 being Panama (horrible) and Liberia (excellent despite the name). If open flags like the Marshall Islands are so "creepy", then why are they so well-respected? Nearly every cruise ship in the world is registered in the Bahamas. The majority of LNG and oil tankers are with the Marshall Islands. Are they operating poorly? Of course not. Impossible to do that in today's environment of constant inspection by Flag, Port State, Insurance, Class, etc. Can't use the argument of safety standards. Most US vessels are no where near the level of compliance for an internationally trading yacht or ship, regardless of what the yachting rags say. And for the UK, they had to create a new set of watered down yacht licenses in order to attract people. Apparently if one cannot meet a minimum standard like STCW, you lower the standard. I think that is the definition of a creepy flag. But as far as day workers in the US, there are immigration rules just like everywhere else in the world. Maybe you get caught, maybe you don't. But with government looking to squeeze every last penny out of your arse for taxes and American unemployment near 10%, you can be sure they will follow the money.
junior
Posted: Monday, August 9, 2010 10:35 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Marshal Islands well respected ? Poo Poo on you. The only flag I respect is the national flag of the owners state. Im presently looking at a beautiful 50 meter plus yacht flying the Spanish Flag. This owner of this yacht accepted his societies social responsibility, conforms to Spanish Law, paid huge tax, flies his flag with pride and I respect him. Consider the case of the goofy Caymans Island COMMERCIAL yacht that killed a deckhand out of negligence. Under the American Flag, protection of the Jones Act and Americas traditon of legal redress, the family of this young man could reduce the captain and owner of that tax haven charter tub to Boston Whaler size yachting.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, August 9, 2010 3:37 PM
Oh my. I think I hurt myself falling out of my chair laughing. You're comparing the Spanish flag to the Marshall Islands and Cayman? That's ridiculous. What does Spain have in its Marina Mercante, about 200 ships? When they get into the 2000 range, then you can make an even comparison. And for the poor crewman that was injured, his legal rights are not hindered by being on a foreign-flagged yacht. It is well-documented that the underlying owning company has no effect on the legal jurisdiction for redress. On the contrary, it is far easier to pursue legal action in a US court against a vessel registered with an open registry than trying to do the same in an Spanish Audiencia Provincial. Cross your fingers there in trying to get action in a reasonable time frame and without some grease on the wheels. In any case, I'm sure your owner sleeps better with him being respected by you. Please thank him for paying higher taxes than my owner. It reduces his burden and allows us to be paid more.
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:50 PM
If all the foreign yachts and crew would just stay out of American jurisdictions, there wouldn't be a problem. The USA doesn't offer anything they can't get elsewhere right?
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:35 PM
It is illegal to work in any country without the proper Visa and paperwork, period. In this day and age with jobs at a premium worldwide, every country should be protecting its borders as well as its workforce by enforcing the law of the land. Yachts could not possibly be used as a terrorism target? Terrorists overtook airliners filled with hundreds of passengers and used them to bring the world to a stand still. What are a few yachties to a determined group bent on destruction and mayhem. France, UK, Spain, India have all suffered horrible attacks using buses, boats and trains. Should they also to turn a blind eye to any potential threat because it affects the "bottom of the yachting food chain, or possibly a wealthy owner who may spend money? Why the disparaging remarks kapt mark? Are you contributing to bridge building by assisting those in Hicksville to have a clear picture of the map and way of the world? You are certainly helping our little pea brains to understand the definition of a bore and a snob.
James Ward
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:51 PM
Joined: 15/10/2008
Posts: 15


I really do not know where to start. --- so start here. Homeland security were never formed to protect the homeland, less that 0.3 % of any of their cases have involved the prosecution of "terrorists" or "terrorist activity" they monitor groups that the controlling powers do not like. ( don't believe me ??? then check it out) It is becoming harder and harder to make the case for 911 as the story has been presented. not the least of which is that 7 of the 19 "hijackers" are still alive. (please check that out also before you post something, one of them is Alomari, quite embarrassing really as he was with Mohammed Atta) The London Bus bomber on 7/7 went in and had a Big Mac -- which he ate by the way -- before he got on a bus and "Blew himself up" ....... Do you know anyone on the planet who could do that ???? He also paid 5 days parking on his car before he left to go to London that morning so he thought he was coming back.. The Survivors of the Spanish train bombings said the explosion ripped through the floor of the train, not from inside it. (Please check these things out before you start a rant) There is so much much information out there that it's incredible that nothing more is said about it. The net result has been a lot less freedom and a lot more control which we have been more than happy to give up so that we can be kept safe from the enemies at the gates. The result will be that everybody will be under more control and more scrutiny, not just dayworkers. Yachting used to be one of those places where you could rejoice in being a complete unknown to any authority. We would go from country to country, travel was simple, visas were easy and the powers that be left us alone Immigration will continue, the little round ups that you see in Spain and Arizona are all pretty much lip service to the big picture and the big picture is integration. NAFTA is the real goal for the american continent. Check out NASCO . North America Super Corridor Coalition Inc. It's a proposed superhighway for "Free Trade from South America to the North. FT Worth TX. Oklahoma and Kansas, no border, no stopping. They have already given the OK for Mexican trucking companies to drive on US roads. So forget the Border Protection, "THEY" the powers that be, don't want it. Check out the government talks between the USA, Mexico and Canada to introduce the "Amero." It's based on the Euro and will replace the currencies of the above countries. ------ Don't believe it could happen ??? -- The governments are talking at the highest levels about it right now, so they are not likely to build a wall between you and Mexico, but they know you don't like the idea so they will slide it in later. Sort of like Britain and the EU. We were told it was just a trade thing, "The Common Market" nothing more, no loss of sovereignty . What a great lie that turned out to be. It goes on and on. Reading all your posts reminded me of the George Orwell book 1984. I know everybody has heard of it, a lot fewer people have read it and that's a shame because there are definite parallels to the things that are being shoved into my ears and eyes by the TV news and in the media in an unrelenting assault on the senses. I'm Numb.... This sounds like a bit of a rant .... not meant to be. We all agree that Lawyers and Politicians are liars, we all tell ourselves that we should never believe anything we read in the papers. And yet we do believe, often without question, even when it is patently ridiculous. how strange is that ??? If you reply to criticize have the courage to not post anonymous I am more than happy to argue the case at length.
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:38 PM
anti immigration legislation is not put into place with the yachting industry in mind. No one really cares about a few hundred or even thousand dayworkers that come over to make a quick buck and get on a boat or go home. I don't think we'll be seeing undercover homeland security agents patrolling the docks looking for dayworkers anytime soon
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:23 PM
It saddens me to hear so much bush government era propoganda and rhetoric being repeated on this page. People are forgetting that bush had nothing going for him so he started to sell fear into the hearts of americans which was bought on a large scale. The country reached its greatness thanks to immigration and new talent arriving not on protectionism and xenophobia! Take a closer look at the details of 911 or if its more convenient watch loose change second edition of loose change final cut on youtube. Apart from the attacks on the twin towers being physically impossible to carry out you can see a very different picture where the states needs a war to stimulate the economy in the short term and to help distract people that the balance sheet of the federal government (and most state governments) is going down the septic tank. No need to even mention oil here as a motive either as that should be obvious to all. Start meddling in peoples affairs that you have no right to mess with and of course your going to annoy people. Saying that terrorism is completely overinflated as an issue. Using a yacht to replicate the 911 attacks?? I wish to refer to my first comment about bush era bull****! please.... The jones act and patriot act - helping make the USA safer or just taking away the rights that were so hard fought for by the founding fathers who had a real interest in making the place great? Although I am not from the US I think people should sort there own house out before blaming others as that is just the easiest thing to do. Every time I enter the states I am made to feel like a terrorist. I spend my fair share of money there which is what they should want and need right now. Always have been legal and always will be so I though my welcoming might resemble that of every other country in the world... Day work plays such a small part to economy its not funny. Bigger fish out there for law enforcement. Like harassing everyday law abiding citizens..
Lars
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:36 PM
Joined: 22/10/2008
Posts: 8


Well Septic tank,

as your name says it all! [Edited by moderator for violating forum guidelines]

yachtone
Posted: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:44 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


Is somebody selling LSD as a water purifier?

americana
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:13 AM
To Anonymous who posted about working in another country illegally, I wish more people like you would speak out. Aside from security issues and the protection of citizens' in obtaining employment in THEIR own country (which of course is dire for us to appreciate)...do you realize how much foreign nationals, many who are English internationals from outside of the States, have profited in terms of money and higher ranking jobs for the past two decades??? Buying nice houses, cars, investments, etc..some living like rockstars while they dis Americans (including the Americans who have PAID them). Do you ever see the same Aussies and SAfricans hanging out at these clubs and bars year after year..while subsisting off dayworking alone? Do you know how much money and networking these illegal gainfully employed these people make?? All the while more Americans yachties have struggled to stay in the industry. Just based on that ----aside from security issues of course----I find it disgusting that ICE AND HOMELAND SEC has looked the other way year after year. Utterly disgusting. Speaking of some history, I'm guessing that many of us FORGET how much British troops slighted many American troops during WW2..while Americans were dying for THEM as well as for other Americans. DISPICABLE. And by what, some ninnies who thought they knew how to lead?? If it were not for the American backbone of the US military and it's REAL leadership, you'd be drinking a different type of beer as well as eating more cabbage and sauerkraut... oh yeah and speaking GERMAN, mayyt. Aside from the pathetic snobbery and lack of persona (among a few other things...eesh) from a number of these peeps, besides all THAT, they've just casually trampled over American yachties/candidates in this industry, while oblivious American charter guests keep paying 'them' and rich American yacht owners through the nose. So, ya know, as I've mentioned this kind of stuff like a broken record, for all you AMERICANS IN THE BIZ WHO PUT UP WITH THIS BS year after year, you deserve to be discriminated and replaced. This industry will continue to be international (not that it is very much - if you LOOK around enough and listen to the same accents...eh, yummy) even if America and much of Europe is willing to stick to their laws with respect to immigration and employment. And what is so bad about hiring people on your own side of the pond? Or trying to obtain a work visa properly if you, yourself, want to work in the Carib or elsewhere from your home port? Find smarter and legitimate ways to get jobs in this industry instead of cutting corners. Btw, South FLORIDA is not the Carib and the Carib is not Europe. I should be emphasizing this to the pathetic recruiters who are very much responsible for recruiting illegal aliens in the States. And yet they're still working...and not arrested. This just ONE REASON AS TO why America is so DUMB.
americana
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:37 AM
and btw, as far as free trade goes (from what someone has just mentioned on this thread), FREE trade has been one of the worst economic disasters that has affected the American economy and it's standing in the world.
junior
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:25 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Holy smokes Americana....are you serious.... "FREE trade has been one of the worst economic disasters that has affected the American economy and it's standing in the world. " ????????????? Park your gas guzzler, quit diddling your Iphone , go back to school then pay attention when you study economics . Americas non competitive economic standing , crumbling infrastructure, special interest group politics and a lamentable concentration of wealth in the top social class has nothing to do with free trade. Poor education, rampant consumerism, excess debt and decades of poor leadership created the mess you now live in. Nothing to do with free trade and absolutely unconnected to illegal immigrants working in meatpacking plants. Its sad to see populist US public policy lashing out at Latino immigrants by creating a Homeland security fog of fear in response to the present situation. History will not record this action favorably.
James Ward
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:06 AM
Joined: 15/10/2008
Posts: 15


Americana is absolutely dead on when he says free trade is the worst thing to ever happen to the USA. It's a disaster but their are people in power that want it and will reap great rewards in the longer term by implementing their version of "free trade." You really do have to look at the economics of "Free Trade" and you will see that it gives license to large international corporations to gut any kind of organized labour movement. The example I stated earlier was NASCO - North America SuperCorridor Coalition Inc -- which will be from Central America to Canada without barriers or restrictions is designed to kill off the big container ports like Los Angeles. Good will be transported cheaply to Mexico and Central America and go straight up the highway by truck and rail. Thats Free Trade. How does that help the USA ???? Simple answer is that it does not. It does however help big transnational corporations who do not really care much for borders and tariffs.
junior
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:09 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


" Goods will be transported cheaply to Mexico and Central America and go straight up the highway by truck and rail. Thats Free Trade. How does that help the USA ???? " WHOA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! almost unbelievable how dumb you are. Yachtone is correct, something hallucinogenic in your Kool Aid. By making goods and services to and from Mexico, our neighbor, our source of energy, the protector of out borders, the consumer of our goods, competitive, you increase Mexico's wealth, improve its infrastructure, encourage the formation of civil society, create millions of consumers for American products and simultaneously solve the illegal alien problem by creating worthwhile jobs for Mexicans...IN MEXICO. If people with ignorant , protectionist views pervert this cycle they will create a failed state on the US border that will threaten the national security of all Americans in the future.
Capt Kaj
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:47 AM
Joined: 05/08/2008
Posts: 83


Homeland Security was not set up to stop day workers working on yachts. Day workers being caught illegally working are not a threat to Homeland Security. Yachts are not a threat to Homeland Security. The tax man is never going to save the countries deficit by stopping day workers. Dayworkers are not stopping Americans from working, nor Spanish in Spain, nor English in England. That is a total mis-conception and a cop out for those that argue that they are kept out of jobs because of "those foreigners taking our jobs" scenario. What a load of old bollocks. Bring out the Kleenex box.

Homeland Security and the clamp down on such foreigners will have a flow on affect to yachting, it will be a by-product and not a focus. Sadly HS are targeting the wrong areas and people, but they will never admit that. They are running around like headless chooks (headless chickens to those unfamiliar with chooks). Recently the American government admitted it has collected way too much intelligence records, and said they don´t know what to do with it!! I have now installed onboard my yacht as a Flag State requirement, an LRIT, Long Range Information Tracking device. Big Brother knows where the yacht is 24/7. WHY WHY WHY......exactly, who needs such rubbish?? Nobody. It is Americas absolute KNEE JERK REACTION which has ruined the world and taken away liberties enjoyed by all forever, don´t tell me that that isn´t a fact!! Vive America, the American dream, look where that got us. All these ill-conceived concocted threats, fear mongering pathetic tactics, creating paranoia, YOU NEED US! type thing.

If so called terrorists want to make their mark, look at all the cruise ships they could target, look at how close a small boat can get to them, you will never protect the world in cotton wool. Yachts, super yachts, call them what you like, ARE NOT THE ONES TO BE TARGETING for goddness sake and they never will be.

People in yachting jobs are there because they are good enough to do the job, otherwise they wouldn´t be there (well not in all cases as we know). The Antipodeans are everywhere, why, because they are bloody good at getting and keeping jobs, are hard working and straight up,  hate the quality competition do we?? Antipodeans (Kiwis and Ozzies) raised the game don´t forget that. They usually come from a stock of yachting backgrounds as we all know too well, look at Americas Cup, look at the number of yachts in Auckland or Sydney harbour, the whole 2 countries probably have more yachts per head of population than most other countries.

The yachting world needs dayworkers period. Sadly new laws and reg´s will take alot of them out of the equation and make them go to ground even more. It is a cult that gets alot of crew a beginning in our industry. Refits need them, crew agencies need them, don´t lie to me and say that most of you haven´t hired a dayworker in your years of yachting!! Don´t tell me either that they had a Visa to legally work onboard! You hired them because they were perfect for the job, you paid them the going rate, you got the job done, everyone was happy. Bugger you guys have short memories sometimes.

Capt Kaj

 


junior
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:28 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


" People in yachting jobs are there because they are good enough to do the job " I wont accept that as a justification for the yachting industries disregard of National workers in favour of imported Foreign crew. Palma de Mallorca is jam packed with yachts which only work the Mediterranean scene and whose entire crew is composed of foreigners. Year after year Spanish young people with the correct qualifications are sidelined from this lucrative job market because of a....we sail with all Australian crew...or...jobs for our mates...mentality. Its obscene that Spanish kids are not prominent in the Mallorca yachting scene. Its crazy that Australian or South African Superyacht Academies are preparing crew to export into this job market. Yacht captains who believe that they can hide behind the privileges of a Foreign Flag and not adhere to natural etiquette by favouring crew from the host country magnify the problem. There is no way that a British, Australian or any Government would permit a foreign company to set up business locally and not employ local labor. When you allow the situation to become so dominated by foreign crew you are simply asking for an adverse reaction by local authorities..
Capt Kaj
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 3:16 PM
Joined: 05/08/2008
Posts: 83


There are alot of Spanish working in the yachting industry in Palma Junior, but not so many on the larger yachts over 40m however. When I was interviewing for an engineer 2 years ago I interviewed 2 Spanish engineers with excellent qualifications. For various reasons I didn´t hire them. I must point out, that there are not alot of Spanish looking for crew or daywork positions. There are also alot of foreign crew that are resident in Spain and fully legally in the system, remember some are also there and spend the time required to be there legally and spend enough time out of there to still be able to stay within the limits. Yes there are those that are there under the radar as there are world wide.

I don´t think the foreigners are shutting out the locals as much as you claim. They have equal opportunity to apply for any job just like those foreigners that are legally able to. The employment is then upto the Captain to choose who he or she wants onboard. Remember also, the industry is not really a Spanish industry. For some reason they are not flocking to training organisations or walking the docks. The Spanish system is also quite tough to get qualified in to hold a Spanish boating license, despite this, take a look at the crazy driving practices around the waters of Ibiza and Mallorca every summer, as we all know holding a license is only the beginning.

Don´t forget, foreign flagged yachts sitting in foreign ports and countries are still a grey area for the time being. This industry has been working just fine for many years, now because it´s not broken, someone wants to fix it! Don´t forget also, there are many of us out there that have been recipients of the spoils of yachting because it has attracted wealthy owners and they do so because they can register a yacht in a tax haven for goodness sake. Take too much of that away and they will start to re-assess their investments. Who will suffer then?

Capt Kaj


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 4:18 PM
I'd like to point out that dayworkers generally put their money earned back into the local yachting economies by spending it at training schools, placement agencies and crew houses. We need them, 'right' visas or not.
junior
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:43 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Well......the system may not be broken but as Septic pointed out in his opening blast of foul air...times are changing. In Mallorca you saw it first with the demise of Leo then Mike Riches . In both cases their position became untenable...the gold mine lay naked ,the Spanish woke up, decided enough was enough and time for local ownership. Its up to captains to realize that in this new yachting world order they are navigating in thin water and that if they fail to mind their manners by favouring locals as crew...be it Palma, Ft Lauderdale or wherever... they soon will be pumping mud due to inevitable local backlash . Intrusive, ICE, HOMELAND SECURITY , Port Authority action is the last thing we need. .
SBC
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:05 PM
Joined: 14/10/2008
Posts: 33


Blimey! It's top season, yet all you guys have got the TIME to write these long rants about nothing? Good on 'yer, rather amusing. Happy cruising, everyone, where ever you might be, legally or not.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:17 PM
Yachties working "illegally" in the US make up less than 0.05% of illegals in your country. Look around. If all illegal immigrants were to be removed from the US at the same time you would be able to hear the POOF when the country imploded into nothingness. Your banks even have backdoor accounts called 'non resident alien account' where illegals can cash their checks and hold an account so they can get their cut form this multi billion dollar underground economy; and yet I still see people on here bitching about a few people who come to the US to find a job on a foreign flagged vessel which in all reality they are allowed to work on while it is in US waters.
yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:45 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


If you really think you can't get any daywork in the US because the Kiwis and Ozzies have taken all the work why don't you do what thousands of young Europeans do, get a temporary work visa and head down to Oz & NZ where you can live the dayworker life. You will probably be waiting tables or picking fruit but you will be paid just as much as a dayworker in the US and you will get to travel & meet lots of people from other countries and maybe learn a thing or two.
PS. if it turns out that as a US citizen you can't get a temporary work visa it will be something to do with reciprocal treaties.

americana
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:37 AM
"People in yachting jobs are there because they are good enough to do the job " I wont accept that as a justification for the yachting industries disregard of National workers in favour of imported Foreign crew. Palma de Mallorca is jam packed with yachts which only work the Mediterranean scene and whose entire crew is composed of foreigners. Year after year Spanish young people with the correct qualifications are sidelined from this lucrative job market because of a....we sail with all Australian crew...or...jobs for our mates...mentality. Its obscene that Spanish kids are not prominent in the Mallorca yachting scene. Its crazy that Australian or South African Superyacht Academies are preparing crew to export into this job market. Yacht captains who believe that they can hide behind the privileges of a Foreign Flag and not adhere to natural etiquette by favouring crew from the host country magnify the problem. There is no way that a British, Australian or any Government would permit a foreign company to set up business locally and not employ local labor. When you allow the situation to become so dominated by foreign crew you are simply asking for an adverse reaction by local authorities.. .....wow Jr. I'm impressed.
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 4:44 AM
Your only a thief if you get caught robbing a bank. As a US Citizen working in France for the past years I understand that seeking employment here is illegal; but I did it. Do I believe in securing US borders against Illegal immigrants and workers? YES. Have you looked at France? It is a mess!! They have no control over anything! All they want is to have some of your money a few days a week by boarding your boat and giving some hefty fines. They do not care about pollution, clean harbors, safety or really about anything more than having a cup of coffee and taking a peek around your boss' superyacht. I for one find it quite easy to bend the rules here, making it easy for ships to be unclean and run to a subpar standard. I applaud the US for having stricter laws on immigration, port control, checking garbage record books etc. These laws are here for a reason people, and if the looser they are the more we bend them. US airport customs on the other hand make me sick. There is a fine line between counter terrorism and violation of human rights that i feel is over stepped in this sense. Also, for the Anti Americanism out there. Please take a look at US response to disasters around the world. We give and give and that is something you can not take away from my country. And of course we protect our national interests, Just like every other country does! We have obligations to the world that we do our best to fulfill sometimes it just isn't in everyone's interest. I have a brother fighting in Afghanistan, and I am very proud of his efforts from a soldier's level, and know that he knows he is part of changing people's ways that do not belong in today's world. There is a lot of hatred in this world. and everyone needs to be a part of changing that.
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:21 PM
I can't even finish reading American posts anymore.
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:45 PM
Well said Capt. Kaj. I have worked as a crew placement agent and one of the questions I asked employers - both captains and owners - was "is there any nationality you don't want to employ". The biggest response was American because they are litigious.
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:55 PM
You can't generalize. You get good and bad from everywhere. I have both Australians and Americans and everywhere in between that I wouldn't want to live on a boat with. Usually thats how you pick your crew isn't it? Who works hard and fits in? As for dayworkers taking the jobs of Americans - give me a break. I guess we could stop them all and then have no yachting industry left in Fort Lauderdale. We could do that with all foriegn nationals. How many Americans want to come mow my lawn in August in Sth Florida?
jakekaj
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:20 PM
Joined: 02/08/2008
Posts: 7


Americans (and for the record that could be anyone from Argentina to Canada) although right now I am talking about people from the States can't get annoyed because 'other people' take their jobs in Florida. If a job is open you fill it with the best person whoever that maybe. Nationality shouldn't come into it and its too easy to take it out on the foreigner. Most yachties are legal although of course in every industry there will be those who are not. Competition is a great thing that should keep you on top of your game and helps everyone improve. If in trouble finding work ;get better at your jobs, less attitude and work harder...
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:39 PM
You know how they say a few bad apples? well I have hired american dayworkers and they tend to want the money without the work. The all believed themselves to be more manager types than worker bees, not to mention some stole from the boat. I will hire Americans who are established in the biz but never will I ever hire another American dayworker. Sorry, twice bitten, third time shy. P.S.Debbie should be coming out of the woodwork soon hahaah !!
14Freedom
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:15 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Hey All-
From a previous forum...

If things are so great in your Country then why come here? With all the FF vessels plying our waters with their cruising permit in place and you are already on board with your proper documents, why are you sitting at LYG/CU/BSA/CF etc. looking for a job?

In retrospect...AMERICANS on the whole (and I'm not talking the government) are the most generous, forgiving, kind, give you a hand out/up when you need it and a kick in the a** when you need it, people on earth. Why do you come here from all your homelands? OPPORTUNITY. Do you all take what AMERICA is about to heart? Do you really care about America other than your wallet/purse?

S***, things must be good in the UK, Europe, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand. I guess about the same as here in the US. Don't believe that the Dow or banking or real estate or public works will bring us out of this funk. Read the help-wanted ads anywhere. There are limited jobs for MULTITUDES of people. BUT F****** A, I'm not hopping a flight to South Hampton, Monte Carlo, Sydney, Auckland or Cape Town to see what's up. I'm trying to GET A JOB IN MY OWN COUNTRY.

And as for lying to any countries immigration officials about why you are trying to get into that country...it calls into question ethics.
ATB-
The Slacker

Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:48 PM
The only thing keeping the US afloat right now are the migrant illegal workers.....cause they work. Well, that and the fact that the Chinese are to busy expanding with all the interest payments you make to come and collect all the money you owe them. As for all the yachts in US waters....what, maybe 15% of the industry cruises there. Get over yourselves....your time is up.
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 7:43 AM
Seriously Migrant Illegals? Maybe working hard at human trafficking and drug smuggling. Please don't be so daft to think that illegal immigrants in the masses are good for any country's economy. Just wait till phillipinos are allowed to travel more freely and then no one will have a job working for anything more than pennies.(and are they as hard working as they bring on) not in my experience. Same situation. Regulations are needed.
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:56 PM
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_jobs.html............ The point is, there are approx 11-20 million illegal workers in united states,not just berry pickers anymore, rather skilled labour. Why are unemployed American yacht crew complaining about a few hundred jobs that might come available in Florida each season that go to students of the yacht schools. They actually gain access to the US through proper channels ( or wouldn't be there) and find work on FF vessels. Americasn are equally encouraged to apply, they just get pissed and cry foul when they don't get the job to a more qualified multi lingual certified crew member. These people certainly don't offer to work for cheaper, they are better qualified. Furthermore, if things keep going the way they are in Florida with all the price gauging and bureaucracy, no Foreign flagged yachts will go there anymore and the problem will be solved. Then you will have to go to a foreign country to find a yacht job and make yourself into a hypocrite.
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:02 PM
Dayworkers are a dying breed, ship yards are shutting them down. To get on as a dayworker these days (pretty much in all major yachting centres) you have to be signed on a crew list to get work. Most mis-appropriately named "dayworkers" have become temporary crew trying out for a full-time position. Regardless, they usually come with references and are signed on the crew list.
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 7:49 PM
HOLY SMOKES! American bashing is the sport of the year! From so many that work in the US, buy homes or property in the US, work for an American owner, some on an American built yacht, sold by an American broker, training in an American school, drive an American car, buy your electronics in America with American dollars, eat American grown food, listen to American music, watch American movies, marry an American so you can live here permanently and open an American business as a crew placement agent, yacht training school, restaurant catering to all the people who hate America but vacation in America ..... then you have children in America who grow up to talk like an an American and dress like an American.... Yep....Lousy America and Americans. Who needs em!
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:27 PM
Nobody said America sucks, we are saying stop crying about the few Yacht jobs that go go to Foreigners. That, and it is not illegal for any of them to be there.
Dean
Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 2:38 PM
Joined: 17/06/2008
Posts: 71



Capt Kaj
Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 4:21 PM
Joined: 05/08/2008
Posts: 83


Well said Dean in your post above! Anonomous said dayworkers are a dying breed, he´s right. Every shipyard these days are stopping them entering unelss they are signed onto the crew list. So there are ways around it. He is also quite right in saying they are actually mis-appropriately called dayworkers. Many are crew in-between jobs, yes many are also newbies hunting for work just like anyone else in any other vocation. We all had to start somewhere right, or did you conveniently forget that? Most of the people I see passing their C.V´s on are not 58 year olds who have decided they want to get into yachting. The world is equal to everyone right, but who would you rather employ a 21 year old American or a 21 year old English kid?

For those who believe foreigners are taking their jobs, get a life, and you are probably not worth employing anyway and hence unemployed or unemployable because others rise above your moaning and get on with it.

For those authorities in the US who are shutting out the very people they shouldn´t be, foreign yachties, then I advise yachts and foreign crew not to go there, they don´t deserve us nor our money.

I worked legally in the States, and hell what I job I had to get into the country, yet I had way more than what was required, it was the idiot on the other side of the desk that didn´t know his job, quite a common problem at immigration. Getting out was ridiculous and pathetic, I was told over the phone that the white for memory I94 forms merely had to be posted back to Immigration, madness.

Get on with the job, if it isn´t broken, DON´T FIX IT.

Capt Kaj


junior
Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 5:43 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Kaj, nobody complains about the normal cycle of deckhand, daywork. Nobody complains when the overall mix of crew nationalities is representative. Its only when things get lopsided ..as in Superyacht Academies in Australia turning out hundreds of crew for export. I know Palma well and its charm is the wide availability of day Labour, small time two men in a van contractors and seasonal yacht crew. LEGAL seasonal crew. The Legal stewardess I use from Palma has a 250 thousand Euro mortgage to service. We pay her 20 thousand for a six month season. She pays down the mortgage with that money then in the off season works as a LEGAL dayworker, paying her social security, Port Authority access fee, insurance ....and charges 25 euro an hour. When mobs of illegal crew hit the scene pressure is put on her earning power. If in the end this pressure is too great she will abandon the yacht industry and we on the yachts suffer the loss of a first class local crew. Times have changed Kaj...no longer can a crew buy a flat in Mallorca for a million pesatas then hang out in Plaza Gomilla. Life is expensive for the local crew...they need to be protected from cheap illegal foriegn workers.
14Freedom
Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 4:34 AM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Hey All,

...and if you are a US citizen, paying taxes, from January 1 to May 23 you are working for our government. Thank you to all those countries, besides our own, getting our $$$.

ATB-
The Slacker

 
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