Welcome to the Dockwalk.com Forum

 

In order to post a comment in one of the forum topics, you must log in or sign up. Your display name will appear next to your posts unless you check the Post Anonymously box. When writing a post, please follow our forum guidelines. If you come across a post that you would like us to review, use the Report Post button. Please note the opinions shared in the forums do not necessarily reflect the views of Dockwalk.


RSS Feed Print
Colour Vision and the ENG1
TLW
Posted: Friday, July 30, 2010 3:47 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Dear Dr. Ken

I'm currently looking to embark on a career in the yachting industry, specifically crewing on superyachts, but recently discovered that I have mild deuteranomaly, a weakness of the green receptors in the eyes.  It's never affected me in normal life and as I've never had an Ishihara test it's never been picked up until now.

My question relates to the possibilities of working with a restricted ENG1 certificate.  I've researched the options and from what I can gather if I fail both the Ishihara and the Holmes Wright tests the doctor can, at their discretion, issue a certificate with a restriction such as "unfit to keep watch at night"

Obviously this less than ideal, but how much of a hinderance would such a restriction be in terms of a career yachtsman?  Without wanting to blow my own trumpet I'm otherwise fit, healthy, personable and willing to work, it's just the colour vision that could be the stumbling block.

Many Thanks

Dr Ken
Posted: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:35 PM
Joined: 08/07/2008
Posts: 22


Dear TLW - the situation may not be as dire as you imagine. If you fail the Ishihara test, you can proceed to one of a couple of colour matching tests - City University or Farnsworth - which are adequate tests for non-watchkeeping work such as engineers although multi-tasking on yachts does not always exempt engineers from watchkeeping. The normal restriction for colour deficiency is "not fit for solo lookout duties at night" which does not normally impact massively on the career potential for the crew member and, if you have a weak deficiency as you indicate, you may well pass the Lantern Test (offered by the MCA in Southampton and a couple of other places in UK, as per website www.mcga.gov.uk). Once you have passed a Lantern Test the problem is over but, if you fail, the restrictions on duties are not so draconian especially when there are normally two people on watch. Hope this helps but get back if you have more queries.
TLW
Posted: Saturday, July 31, 2010 12:07 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Ken,

Your advice is recieved with great relief, living on the Isle of Wight (with Cowes week kicking into full swing today) I've had my eye on working on boats for the last decade and to find something out at the last second before I jump in was quite a blow!!

I've yet to have my vision accurately tested by an optometrist but based on numerous online tests I suspect the case is such that I would almost certainly fail the Ishihara plates, most likely fail the Holmes Wright Type B lantern, maybe pass the less discriminating Farnsworth Lantern test, and possibly pass the D15 test (I seem to do much better where I can compare colours and hues in the arrangement test).

edit to add: I came to the conclusion of a mild weakness based on the results of an online D15 test and anomaloscope, both of which graded the severity of the deficiency

Thanks for the help, next step is to get down to my local authorised doctor, find out just how bad my deficiency is, and see how I can best work around it.

TLW
Posted: Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:55 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Just to update anybody that was interested

Went to the medical and everything went as expected, the Ishihara plates were the problem, roughly 50% correct, 25% vague and 25% unable to see anything

Went for my lantern test last Friday only to be hit with the question of whether I wanted to take a 2 mile or 1 mile test, an option I had no idea existed, as far as I could ascertain the 2 mile test is required to gain commercial endorsement on tickets over a certain tonnage.  Seems I can still obtain a Certificate of Competence with a 1 mile pass

Anyway, the short answer is I took, and failed, the 2 mile test.  I've re-booked to take the 1 mile test next Friday if only for personal satisfaction, but I can't find any information of how the results of the two tests affect the medical exam.  If I fail one and pass another how is this interpreted where the guidelines for doctors only mention "a lantern test"

Obviously I'm going to be contacting my Doctor but it's always to get more than one opinion, not sure if this is moving out of the medical realms into career advice or not but it's all in one thread...

TLW
Posted: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:23 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Small update: Spoke to my Doctor, he's not had experience of two different lantern tests so he's going to be speaking to the MCGA regarding their advice on how to proceed.  Can't find anything online that mentions two versions of the test either so currently I feel a little, if you'll escuse the pun, in the dark...

Test still going ahead on Friday

Jez
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 10:17 AM
Joined: 10/09/2008
Posts: 5


Glad to see this coming up for discussion. I too lived on the Isle of Wight and the MCA approved doctor there had not much idea what to do about deficiencies in colour vision. I failed the Ishihara plates and went for a City University test which I passed with 100%. This doctor gave me my ENG1 with the proviso 'unsuitable for watchkeeping duties'.
This didn't affect me too badly as I was pursuing a career as an engineer. I have now been in the industry for 3 and half years, done around 10000 miles, mostly as senior watchkeeper. I have never had a problem identifying ships at night and often do better at spotting them than the able sighted crew. (hint, you can't see colours through closed eyelids.)
Anyway I am now working as a captain on a 32m yacht. I am interested to see how things go for you as I would really like to take my commercial tickets, even though thus far their absence has not hampered me in the slightest.

TLW
Posted: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:41 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Jez

Your story is encouraging as I've just a few minutes ago been told if I have a restricted ENG1 I'll never progress beyond, and I'm quoting here "just a deckhand" !!!

I'm beginning to wonder if anybody knows the answers to the questions I have.  I know in real life situations I can spot ships at considerable distance (think Cowes-->Calshot) and correctly identify the light colours, but obviously in the test I can't.  In reality, if yachts are crewed by two people on lookout, why one couldn't be colour deficient is beyond me - surely it's an identical situation to having one, full vision, lookout except you have two pairs of eyes to spot the navigation lights in the first place, and my acuity is excellent...

Frankly it's getting frustrating, I hate uncertainty at the best of times, when it involves something as serious as an entire change of life it's mind boggling

A quick question about the City University Test, how do they differentiate a pass or fail?  I've viewed their online test and I lose track of the square for roughly a second bang in the middle of the green spectrum, which is pretty much as expected - on their website they simply tell you to say when you lose track, but surely this is open to people simply lying their way through!!  There must be a method they use to judge your ability to track the square

Another option is the Farnsworth D15 test, which relies more on your ability to differentiate hues rather than outright define colours, which I can probably make a good stab at


Urgh, feeling pretty down about the whole thing right now but I have a stinking cold and the weather is crap - still, tomorrow is another day

TLW
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:17 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Might as well finish the story off here...

Failed the test at one miles, the guy conducting it didn't have a clue, basically switched the flouro lights off, then said "whenever you're ready" after about thirty seconds - after a further minute or so he repeated himself and I mentioned the MCGA guideline of "at least ten min, preferably fifteen" in darkness and he just said "oh no don't worry, your eyes will adjust after a minute or so"

Not that any of it made any difference, for one the lights weren't any clearer at the end of the test, even though I managed to fail 4/10 of the large aperture lights given at the start at one mile, and none at two.

Secondly, despite hours of research, all I can find is that besides being the standard for boatmaster license holders renewing their licenses the one mile test means sweet FA in the world of qualifications, and the two mile test is the standard for the ENG medical


So, that's about it really, wondering the best way to approach the water now but nobody seems to know a thing...

Jez
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 2:26 PM
Joined: 10/09/2008
Posts: 5


Sorry you had such bad luck. Perhaps the test I took wasn't city university. It comprised of about 10 cards each with a coloured square surrounded by 4 other squares and you had to match the one which was closest in colour. I nearly screwed it up as initially I wanted to match the one with the nearest tone.
The yachting industry is not quite the above board, official world everyone says it is. I have never had to show my eng1 to get a job. A few captains didn't know what it was. One captain offered to retake it for me himself so I could pass. You probably will never be able to go on a commercial charter yacht but there are plenty of private yachts. The MCA is completely out of date with most things.
In modern navigation at night I usually pick up another vessel on my radar at 12 miles, I make it a marpa target and I know which way it's headed, how fast and if there's a collision likely. If it's a big vessel they rarely care about col regs, they have a collision warning set at 1 mile range and that is what usually wakes them up. Basically my rule of thumb is 'If i see a light of any colour, avoid hitting it'. Also I never stand watch on my own at night, that's just common sense. You can play on your colour deficiency and make you sure you do a watch with a stewardess as she is extremely unlikely to have any colour problems and is usually good company.
Don't be disheartened, if you are hardworking and knowledgeable you will get on, some avenues will always be closed but there are plenty more.

TLW
Posted: Friday, November 19, 2010 2:57 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Jez - I definitely get the impression that the people on the boats have a more realistic and pragmatic approach than the people who make the rules or administer them

Not saying that there's no merit in medical testing or observing standards, as above, it's obviously important that whoever is standing watch knows the speed and heading of other vessels, just that safety and legislation aren't always mutually exclusive

Not sure what test you were administered, the only ones the MCA say they accept for Deck are the Isihara (the evil plates of dots!!) or the lantern test at 2miles. For engineering they accept the Farnsworth D-15 (arranging 15 coloured cubes in as constant colour spectrum as possible) and the City University test, where you watch a coloured "square" on a monitor in a mix and see if it disappears...

I think I'm going to press on with my STCW95, plus a couple of smaller courses like the L2 Powerboat, Diesel Engine Maintenance and the like, then see where I can get a foothold as a deckhand - from there I'll just have to see where the fates put me

Thanks for the advice, and if you need a green deckhand looking for work from early January onwards give me a shout, although I can't stand lookout with you!!!

TLW
Posted: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 4:12 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


I was going to update this on Thursday after the certificate was finalised, but as you're here I'll post now - I had a busy couple of months over Xmas so not much happened until recently

The short version is that I'm going to be issued a certificate with restrictions on Navigational Watchkeeping and also on work with coloured cables

I decided to go for a Deck/Engineering medical just so I can leave more options open

Quite how the various tests correspond to reality I'm lost, I've been working with coloured cables since I was ten and have never had a problem identifying them, resister bands or any other red/green situation.  Additionally, when I've been out on the Solent I can identify ships nav lights and buoyage up to Southampton water, roughly 3nmi distance, without a problem...

My doctor also attended a conference towards the end of last year where it was put forward that the methods of testing colour vision at the MCA don't accurately reflect reality for all but the extremes of the scale, for people like me stuck in the middle the reality is all the tests can show is that yes, there is some anomaly there, but no, we can't quantify it or say how bad.

I could take more tests but frankly I'm sick of being in offices being told by people who probably never set foot on boats what I can and can't see...

Current plan is to locate in the south of France around March and see what happens.  If boating is really what you want to do, don't let officious paperwork put you off, get out there and go for it...

TLW
Posted: Wednesday, February 2, 2011 3:55 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Go for the ENG1 - it's the worldwide standard and "better" than the ML5, the colour vision tests are identical for both so if you don't pass you'll have restrictions on either.  I put it off as well but eventually you just need to suck it up and go see the doctor, I can promise you will feel better about it afterwards, my doctor has been incredibly understanding throughout and wholly supportive.  Another reason to get it done now is that you may have to wait a week for the medical, then another week or more for the lantern test, it'll be March soon and the early bird catches the worm...

There does seem to be some kind of stigma associated with colour vision... The simple fact is that one in eight guys have some form of it and I'd rather work with someone who was honest up front and said "I can't stand watch with anyone else who is" rather than the person who would say nothing and risk endangering the vessel because they're too proud to admit it!!!

I have completed my STCW95, RYA Powerboat L2, Basic Diesel engine maintenance and have whatever the basic VHF radio operator's license is.  None are commercially endorsed in the way you may wish to endorse a Yachtmaster or such, and my understanding is that without an unrestricted medical certificate endorsement is not possible under the MCA as the qualification entitles you to take sole command of a vessel.  I wouldn't make any life plans as a Deck Officer until you know know a bit more about the state of the waters...

In terms of job prospects the short answer is I don't know, and months of asking people and researching hasn't provided anything close to an answer, the only option left is to go and find out for myself. Consider it a six week+ holiday and if it falls apart completely I've spent a month's wages on training and got a good tan before summer in the UK starts...

NMD
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 10:54 AM
Joined: 01/03/2010
Posts: 2


Hi Nick, Thank you for your email. I can confirm that we can issue you with a commercial endorsement but it just means that your commercial endorsement will be issued with restrictions to run in line with your ENG1 Medical. Alice Piatkiewicz Certification Department Just for anyone interested
TLW
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 11:00 AM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


"Hi Nick, Thank you for your email. I can confirm that we can issue you with a commercial endorsement but it just means that your commercial endorsement will be issued with restrictions to run in line with your ENG1 Medical. Alice Piatkiewicz Certification Department"

Is that from the MCA?  That's news to me.  Did you specifically mention colour blindness?  I always thought that this would be the sensible way to approach the problem but got the impression from the MCA that it wasn't possible

Thanks for doing the legwork...

NMD
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 11:14 AM
Joined: 01/03/2010
Posts: 2


Im pretty sure the RYA commercially endorse your tickets e.g Yachtmaster etc. Please correct me if not. Its from the RYA, i emailed the certification department directly. If that is the case i think thats highly positive, right? Or is it the MCA? Hope all goes well for you mate. Im going to book my medical soon and see if i can pass the lantern, if that goes well then all is plain sailing, excuse the pun! But if not im going to try the city university Colour blind test. If all fails, i reckon im going to try anyway and get out to palma or antibes as soon as ive done some qualifications, probably for the next med season, maybe before, it depends, ill need to get my STCW95, powerboat lv 2? Any other courses recommended?
TLW
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 11:29 AM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


You are right, the address to send your qualifications for endorsement is the RYA:

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/professional/commercialend/pages/commercialendorsements.aspx

Interesting info, if a Yachtmaster qualification can be commercially endorsed with a restricted medical that's got to be positive, so long as working within the constrains of the medical certificate doesn't present a massive problem later on...

As for qualifications, for a British flagged vessel the minimum legal requirement is the STCW95 courses, and afaik that's fairly universally expected throughout the industry.  A certificate showing you know the basics of tender driving would be a good if you want to work on deck, so the Level 2 PB would be an idea.  If you have no experience with VHF at the very least get some info on it, a lot of ship communication will go on over VHF and knowing how to handle it is worth paying for IMO...

You could go for a Yachtmaster qualification but unless you have some sea time already I suspect the impression you might give to someone who's been in the industry for years is that you have all the qualifications but little experience

TLW
Posted: Thursday, February 3, 2011 6:25 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Well, the results are in, as I already knew I have an ENG1 with restrictions, the exact wording of the restrictions is as follows:

"Not fit for solo navigational or lookout duties between the hours of dusk and dawn"

and

"Not fit for work with coloured cabling"


All in all, the critical word is "solo" - we discussed it after he filled in the certificate and my Doc agreed that given my (excellent) visual acuity, provided there was a non-colourblind person present as well, there was no reason I couldn't safely stand watch on a vessel.

Hope you get through the tests Nick, but if not don't give up hope, there's many ways to skin a cat and if you want to work at sea you'll find something that suits you just fine I'm sure!!

TLW
Posted: Monday, February 7, 2011 3:28 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Nick, the MCA Lantern test is, as you say, a box that emits lights, you'll sit six metres away for the two mile test (I had to use a mirror as the room was only small).  The MCA guidelines for the test say to allow adequate time for your vision to adjust to the darkness, it DOES make a difference so if it's your two mile test (the only one that counts for the ENG) and they begin before you're comfortable then say something and request more time, the guidelines mention fifteen minutes but I found I was ready after five or so.

The test itself begins with roughly ten large aperture lights, intended to screen you before they begin the test for real, I found these quite easy.   Then they switch to the small aperture lights, and you'll be shown up to forty pairs of lights, of varying intensity and vibrance, but the lights can be red, green, or white in any combination and you must state what you see them as being.  I don't know the exact criteria for a pass/fail, but the guys I did mine with were relaxed and made very clear how the test would proceed.


I'd be interested to hear back from your friend, make sure he's aware that the restriction I (and hopefully you, if you're not successful) have is only on "solo" navigation or lookout duties "at night" - as if it's the case that there's normally more than one person on watch all you need is for the other person to be unrestricted and in reality there is no issue, and everyone is complying by the terms of their medical certificates...

TLW
Posted: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 8:38 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Congratulations are in order then!!  Nice one.

I'm flying to Antibes on Friday, so hopefully something will come my way

Will message you my email, would be good to stay in touch...

TLW
Posted: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 8:45 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Hmm, I can't seem to get a message sent off to you

My email is mark dot boats at gmail dot com

Jack
Posted: Sunday, March 13, 2011 9:27 PM
Joined: 13/03/2011
Posts: 1


Dear TLW, I have sent you an email regarding this topic as we are both in the same position. Regards, Jack.
TLW
Posted: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:15 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Jack, as I said in the email I sent, the only advice I can give is to come to Antibes and try your luck.

Have spoken to roughly twenty agencies over the last week, all of them aware of the restricted medical, the see "quite a few but not a huge number" of people coming into the industry with colour vision problems and they said it's a problem but not an insurmountable one

I thought I'd pop back on here and finish the story off for anybody that is following, I've been in Antibes a week and I now have a permanent job on a 31m M/Y - only three crew so very informal, haven't met the owner but supposed to be laid back and easy going

So, the answer to the question is no, a restricted medical may not be a barrier to working in the superyacht industry...


Kiwi D
Posted: Sunday, May 1, 2011 11:27 PM
Joined: 22/02/2011
Posts: 8


Any updates from those of you with restricted certificates?

I've just stumbled across this, about to book my flights and STCW and everything then though I might take a quick look at what's included in the ENG1... then quickly discovered the colour tests which based off the online tests I've done I am pretty sure I will fail.

So far so good for everyone else?

TLW
Posted: Monday, May 9, 2011 6:36 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Not so much an update as just to say things are going fine, I'm on a private M/Y with one of the best contracts I've seen. Cruising Italy and Croatia until September then back to France to care for the boat over winter.

Don't let the colour vision hold you back, it won't, at least not until you're years into the industry and have worked out everything for yourself...

Anonymous
Posted: Monday, May 9, 2011 8:47 PM
That's just brilliant. What does the doctor care? Allowing a deck rating that can't see colours to stand a bridge watch? The dusk to dawn and cables' restriction means nothing. What if you are in reduced visibility during the day? Oh, sorry mate, I know you've been up all night, but it's foggy out and I can't stand watch. Care to take over for me? Or there's a fire on board and some breakers need to be switched off. Hit the ones with the red labels. NOT. I wonder if the doctor lets chefs with hepatitis also sail. Everyone is entitled to work, but that same entitlement does not mean that you need to work on the water. People complain about STCW and its minimum standard, but when it comes to yachts, apparently that is OK. This is another perfect example of how the MCA is degrading a professional career at sea. The Y-licenses are watered-down equivalencies. LY2 is water-down safety requirements from SOLAS. Now I read this?!! Can they make yachting any more half-arse? The word "professional" in yachting should be an oxymoron.
TLW
Posted: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:03 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Wow, so much hate and so much ignorance, it's sad that people like that exist in this world...

Glad to say that of the many captains and crew I've met, none of them are as stupid and rude as the internet keyboard warriors posting anonymously behind the comfort of their screens...

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:32 AM
TLW, since you know so much, dispute one statement in the above paragraph. I would love to hear your justification for allowing a color blind watchstander on the bridge or part of the emergency team. Show me how stupid I am. I can definitely prove that the captain you work for is an idiot. Probably has a fresh yachtmaster ticket after his massive 50 days of required sea time. I recommend that you sleep with your lifejacket on, that is only if the "old man" can get her off the dock.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:24 AM
Hate and Ignorance ?? As a seasoned veteran I completely disagree. More like wisdom and reality. You are the ignorant one. You have been working on a boat that considered by some only the size of a big tender to a super-yacht for all of what, 2 months. C'mon, that is greener than green. You should read back and see how your attitude has changed from your first post. Great you got a job, but man, check your attitude and please, with a crew of three, be careful your Capt. doesn't sink you. If your change of disposition comes form exposure to him, I would be scared. Everything anon posted is true, and if you interpreted that as hate and ignorant I am glad you don't post anon so I can never go to sea with you. If your Captain lets you stand watch with a restricted medical then he is liable, but by working on a 31m he probably hasn't taken the Business and Law course yet. PS, i am not the other anon.
rodsteel
Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:47 AM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 275


TLW wrote:
...the exact wording of the restrictions is as follows:

"Not fit for solo navigational or lookout duties between the hours of dusk and dawn"

and

"Not fit for work with coloured cabling"...

Hey Anons,

 

Where in TLW's last three posts did it say he was standing solo watch between dusk and dawn?

 

With appropriate safeguards and training, "visually challenged" crew should not be discriminated against, no?

 

Cheers,

 

Rod


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:20 AM
What next, allow Surgeons with Parkinson's disease. Rod he did say however that he was one of three crew. Do the math mate, either he is keeping watch or they are all breaking the rules on Safe manning and hours of rest.
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:01 PM
hi, i will be sitting a medical (eng 1) soon. i am 5ft 11" tall and i weigh 95 kg would this be classed as overweight? would i have problems with my medical at this weight? daniel maciver
russ
Posted: Saturday, October 22, 2011 1:37 PM
Joined: 22/10/2011
Posts: 1


Hi Dr ken. in a bit of a pickle here,

i have worked at sea for 11 years now, last 4 as skipper. i have passed the ENG1 medical without problem since first going to sea. i had to re validate in aug this year. the dogtor was not happy with the ishihara and sent me for a lantern test. FAILED. assessor told me i could not tell the difference between white and green, i was not happy with his finding as i am navigating at night with no issues so asked to check his findings myself before i signed the fail paperwork and noted i had got some white, green wrong but not all. (I had a lantern test as part of my first ever medical and passed) worried as i have never had colour problems before, i booked an eye test and colour vision test with an optometrist. he told me i needed a stronger prescription for my glasses but i passed the ishihara test and city test with him and the eye scans revealed no damage or problems. he could not understand how the first doctor failed me, failing the lantern test may have been down to my prescription but he assured me colour vision does not change unless of desease of head trauma.  i waited two weeks to get used to my new glasses then booked another ENG1 with the doctor i have used in previous years explaining all that had happened, he allso said my colour vision would not change and agreed to do my medical. i went to him, passed all aspects up until the ishihara plates. he was amazed and told me i was serverely colourblind!. ENG FAILED AGAIN. the very next day i contacted the optometrist again, explained the situation and he told me to get down to him there and then and he would do all possible known tests. supprise supprise all scans clear, city test passed, ishihara plates passed. i have spoken to mca and they dont seem interested, i have my gp involved and the optometrist who done the test twice now writing letters confirming my excellent health and NO COLOUR BLINDNESS.  broblem is i still need an ENG to re validate my license and now my job is under threat as my employers are loosing patience. i have spoken to some medical profesionals that say colour vision can change and some who are addamant it cant. i am frustrated and very confused. It would seem  im colourblind one day and not the next depending who you talk to. sick of getting fobbed off. any advice would be greatfully recieved.


TLW
Posted: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 7:20 AM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


rodsteel wrote:
With appropriate safeguards and training, "visually challenged" crew should not be discriminated against, no?


Hey Rod

I saw your posts months ago but didn't have chance to reply, then got a bit involved in life etc...

Glad to say everybody I've met in the real, non-internet, world has been exceptionally helpful, reasonable and shared your view on the matter



For russ:

The Ishihara plate test *should* be administered under a controlled light source, as slight differences in the light falling on the plates can make them appear more or less clear, but as you say, colour vision does not deteriorate with age like acuity (I'm not sure about medical causes though?).  Neither the Ishihara, City, nor lantern tests really offer a good analogue of real life, despite my certificate I've never had a problem identifying nav lights or cable colours, so to hear that you've worked for years without a problem is not surprising.  Try requesting that the plate test is done under the correct circumstances, if you needed a lantern test for your first medical you may have a slight defect, and if your doc has a new table lamp or office lighting it may be enough to throw the results...

Good luck

ratpack
Posted: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 8:07 AM
Joined: 03/03/2011
Posts: 98


Hey TLW - get your eyes tested again - what sort of Union Flag is that ?
TLW
Posted: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 8:43 AM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


ratpack wrote:
Hey TLW - get your eyes tested again - what sort of Union Flag is that ?

Touché dude, you got me there...

I should have spent more time and found a proper one, and flipped it upside down, sign of distress and all that...

Still, at least it wasn't green...

ratpack
Posted: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 10:14 AM
Joined: 03/03/2011
Posts: 98


It's not even upside down fella - it's completely wrong! Try reading the union flag act 2008 - be proud to be british instead of making a hash of it.
TLW
Posted: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 10:18 AM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


I feel as though this is a slight sidetrack but yes, I know it wasn't right, but didn't immediately have time to change it...

Should be better now, just assume the hoist is on the left hand side...

Jamie
Posted: Saturday, November 26, 2011 7:35 PM
Joined: 26/11/2011
Posts: 1


Hi there Its been great reading your thread. I've actually got the ENG1 test on Tuesday and know i'm going to fail on the Ishihara Plates. I'm actually booking the Holmes Lantern test beforehand so hopefully I can take it straight after in Glasgow. Either way i'm not going to let it deter me. I'm sure there are other avenues to take. Thanks
Rusty Wrench
Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:39 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


In reply to the original post by TLW,

If you are not a deck or engine officer holding an MCA certificate of competency, but serving as a junior deck, engine or interior crew member on a Cayman Island vessel (the vast majority of yachts are Cayman flag), you can take the USCG medical examination instead of the ENG1.

It is possible the USCG color vision test may be less strict (or even multiple choice!)


rodsteel
Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:47 AM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 275


Rusty Wrench wrote:

In reply to the original post by TLW,

...It is possible the USCG color vision test may be less strict (or even multiple choice!)
 

 

Page 6 of 9 of CG-719K Rev. 01-09

 

Color Vision

 

The following color sense testing methodologies are acceptable: AOC (1965) – (6 or fewer errors on plates 1-15) AOC-HRR (2nd Edition) – (No errors in test plates 7-11) Richmond (1983) – (6 or fewer errors) Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates test, 14 plate (5 or less errors), 24 plate (6 or less errors) 38 plate (8 or less errors)

 

Titmus Vision Tester / OPTEC 2000 – (No errors on six plates) Farnsworth Lantern (colored lights) Test per instruction booklet. Optec 900 (colored lights) Test per instruction booklet. An alternative test approved by the Coast Guard (indicate test)


Rusty Wrench
Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:26 AM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


Rod,

Did you read and compare MCA to USCG testing methods, or just post a reference to the 'federal regulations'?

Either way, your statement does not prove the case in any direction.


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:23 AM
Good news to all British Seamen who need to have an ENG1 medical carried out in the Caribbean! Eureka Medical Clinic on Tortola, British Virgin Islands, has applied to become an MCA recognised medical practioner. This will save you a long trip to the US or back to Europe, while your working the winter season. Now fly to EIS or sail through the BVI. British Virgin Islands Doctor | Road Town & Virgin Gorda Medical Clinic
Splashinthepan
Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 7:50 PM
Joined: 16/01/2012
Posts: 1


Really interesting threads and usfull, thanks ,,, I too struggle passing the color blind test,, and just like some of you can easily tell red/green apart. I have been to the opticians and have a pair of color corrective glasses ((chromagen(pink lenses))) and can easily pass the the Ishy test wearing them. I paid xtra and had a mirror lens added to them to make them look as if they were prescription sunglasses. I tried them out last month when I went for the oil rig medical and told them I had broke my normal glasses and had these sunglasses for the eye test,, worked like a dream, passed 100% Look I know some of you are gonna bitch and whine but to you guys out there with a slight color deficiancy there are ways round this. Booking my eng1 this week and will fill you in on the results.
TLW
Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 8:00 PM
Joined: 30/07/2010
Posts: 22


Splashinthepan wrote:
Really interesting threads and usfull, thanks ,,, I too struggle passing the color blind test,, and just like some of you can easily tell red/green apart. I have been to the opticians and have a pair of color corrective glasses ((chromagen(pink lenses))) and can easily pass the the Ishy test wearing them. I paid xtra and had a mirror lens added to them to make them look as if they were prescription sunglasses. I tried them out last month when I went for the oil rig medical and told them I had broke my normal glasses and had these sunglasses for the eye test,, worked like a dream, passed 100% Look I know some of you are gonna bitch and whine but to you guys out there with a slight color deficiancy there are ways round this. Booking my eng1 this week and will fill you in on the results.

You cannot wear Chromagen lenses for the ENG1 medical

If your Doctor doesn't ask and you "pass" your certificate will be invalid

If he asks and you lie your certificate will be invalid

If you tell the truth you won't get a certificate

Why not just be honest with everyone and yourself?  Would you lie about having qualifications you don't have on a CV?

GTO
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:18 PM
Joined: 12/11/2013
Posts: 1


I appreciate that I am coming in way late on this but the thread was compelling and I have only recently had a need to look into colour blindness and any restrictions when getting a commercial endorsement / ENG1 as I am looking at doing some delivery work

I have known I have been colour blind to red and green when I was tested at school using the Ishihara plate test but a more recent lantern test clarified that I was right on the cusp of being colour blind.

I am shore based now but at the time made it to the heady heights of captain albeit I only needed my Yachtmaster (pre 2000) but never had an issue with my colour blindness with any aspect of running a yacht for 9 years.

In fact I was forced by the owner of one yacht to take on a deck crew who had done all the courses at a school in the UK but was blind without his glasses.  He did not wear contact lenses so if he ever lost his glasses or was impaired from sea spray etc. he was completely useless which was also inherently dangerous.

I appreciate that there are different degrees of colour blindness as there are with other sight tests, however where is the line drawn?  How can someone who is defined as colour blind by the plate test and therefore potentially be offered a restricted ENG1 but has exceptional vision in all other respects cannot gain a commercial endorsement where as someone who is severely affected with what they can and can't see without their glasses/contact lenses can be issued one?

Also, I may have this wrong, but why can someone who needs to wear glasses/contact lenses can kep them on/in for part of the vision tests whereas colour corrective glasses are wholly not allowed during any part of the tests?

Do you think that a period at sea should be taken into consideration when submitting an application for your STCW95 or does it simply highlight problems with these medical tests and their alleged inability to assess the reality of the situation a crew member on watch is faced?

Just some thoughts and questions for the masses!


 
 Average 5 out of 5