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Tight owners!
Anon
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:19 PM
Joined: 30/04/2010
Posts: 2


I've been in this trade for many years (maybe too long) and still, I am amazed how some owners ask the captain (me) to put money up front for provisioning or dockage or crew wages or fuel w.h.y. Despite carefull budgeting, things happen, and the boat cash goes, and to maintain a professional level of service and the yacht's reputation, I dig into my pocket and pay such costs. Suppliers and contractors I have trust with, I can't let them down, I live with these guys! OK, I get the money back from the boss, but in how many other industries does the employee pay for the fridges to be full of champs and grub? I really ****es me off when we do our utmost to please these fortunate people only to be exploited because of our ethics or am I just stupid?
CaptErik
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:19 PM
Joined: 09/09/2008
Posts: 64


You are stupid to do this. The boat should come to a screeching hault, if the money runs out, otherwise the situation will continue, and you will eventually get burned.
ecodepot
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:33 PM
Joined: 10/07/2008
Posts: 6


I hate to think how many millionaires owe me a thousand bucks or more. I suggest you think of it as musical chairs. How much will you be owed when the music stops? What do you do if this guy decides to put the boat up for sale? Fires you? You want to leave for another opportunity?............ On occassion I go into my pocket but only when it is for my convinience. If an owner is trying to get me to finance his yachting I start looking for a new job. .............. You have really answered your own question.
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 8:10 PM
YES, STUPID you will get burnt when your owner decides he no longer needs you.

Alex
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 9:10 PM
Joined: 23/04/2010
Posts: 2


I'm regret to read that this "sponsorship" are in worldwide use... I did once for a big luxury yachts company and I missed a lot of money. Not stupid, it was simply the desire to do the best.
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 9:15 PM
anon:  I have been in your situation, and I only did it to certain maximums in $$$ amounts.  I learned from that, and I decided it was in my best interest to never allow myself to be in the same scenario again even though I was paid back quickly.  On another note, I captained a vessel at one point that had all expenses being ran through my corporate account.  Nothing was being done wrong within accounting standards (GAAP) until the owner approached me to request if I would begin running his three mortgages through my corporation.  That was my cue to give notice within a reasonable time or receive a pink slip immediately for saying no.  Turns out, the decision to give notice was the best thing to do. 
le-capitaine
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 10:25 PM
Joined: 27/01/2009
Posts: 15


$45,000. Yep! $45,000. That's what I left behind when I finally left the last big boat I had captained for almost eight years. Raised the owner's grandkids on board, swanned about the NYYC when he was on board in Newport or NYC, really lead a pretty good life for all that time. Finally did leave when I realized that the situation would never change. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Like another poster has already commented, 'you've answered your own question!
EdLee
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 2:05 AM
Joined: 05/03/2010
Posts: 18


I have a very important question to ask; if I were to let you in on the cruel truth, will you be able to shed away the defensive stance and garner some sense out of it? Let's break it down into bits.

Suppliers and contractors I have trust with, I can't let them down, I live with these guys!

Before I go to the bad part, let's talk about the good first. It's lovely to see people treasure the working relationship with partnering/related services. This is one of the valuable traits of a good captain because it irons out a lot of nasty situations when help is needed from them.

But, this is a double-edged sword. You come out here bitching about your owner and "can't let your suppliers and contractors down", it calls into question who exactly do you work for? The yacht owner or the suppliers/contractors? Who exactly pays you for your service and expertise?

OK, I get the money back from the boss...

Unless you are saying your boss often refused to reimburse you like some other captains (which doesn't seemed to be the case based on how you relate your "plight"), I really don't see what your complaints are about.

Despite careful budgeting, things happen, and the boat cash goes, and to maintain a professional level of service and the yacht's reputation, I dig into my pocket and pay such costs.

You've said it, if as a captain you can't set allocate/prepare a good contingency (emergency) fund despite careful budgeting (now, that's what you claimed) and like you said, shit happens, you are faulting the owner for that? The owner owns the yacht, you managed the yacht. If I am an owner, I do question your competency based on what you said.

I've been in this trade for many years (maybe too long) and still, I am amazed how some owners ask the captain (me) to put money up front for provisioning or dockage or crew wages or fuel, why?

Perhaps you are right, maybe you have been in that little small space for far too long that you have begun to lose touch with reality in the working society. A career out at sea and a career on land is somewhat different and can be somewhat similar too. My explanation below says why...

but in how many other industries does the employee pay for the fridges to be full of champs and grub?

Are you able to handle the truth? Take an Officewalk and you will definitely find employees who pay from their own pockets for many stuffs before they are reimbursed either through petty cash or direct deposit with their monthly salaries. Anything from pantry food items, trivial expenses to even business hotel stays and entertainment fees. Some of which can amount into tens of thousands which are 100% reimbursable. And that's for the record, common practice in many MNCs even. If you're not convinced, by all means GO TRY.

Do you really have a good grasp of other industries to be doing that comparison? Obviously, you don't. Go do a reality check, my friend.

I really ****es me off when we do our utmost to please these fortunate people only to be exploited because of our ethics or am I just stupid?

Do you have an axe to grind with wealthy people? Seemed to be so. Fortunate people? Are you not fortunate enough to be working onboard a private yacht compared to others with low salaries in factories or fast-food chains?

Bear in mind many of them worked the shit out of their pants to get to where they are or managed to accumulate their wealth that you see today. Based on the common office practice I shared above, do you still feel you are being exploited? Some of these yacht owners are also working for companies and also pay for expenses before being reimbursed, do you hear them whining about it all the time?

Pardon me if I really don't get it. You have to foot for expenses first when things happen (when you should be the one managing the yacht well) but your owner always pay you back (at least that's the impression you gave), what exactly are you whining about?

I don't feel it's the yacht owner's fault if you failed to give him a good budgeting taking into consideration of emergency expenditures. In fact, I say you failed in your job as a captain. Granted, it is difficult to pinpoint exactly how much contingency fund is required. Most folks can't anyway.

If it's like what I suggested above that you often don't get your money back (I emphasize again, you said the complete opposite), I can sympathize with you. But from your words, it isn't the case? And those lapping it up and enjoy slamming yacht owners clearly isn't reading with eyes opened.

Truth be told, I often come across captains/crews that spend unreasonably on unnecessary self-entertainment and writes it off as yacht expenses. Some crew even make sure their own personal tidbits are deductible from the ship fund. Do we hear a lot of these complaints from owners too? We don't. If you think I-pay-first-and-owner-always-pay-me-back is too much for you to bear, I say - QUIT and take your walk.

One thing that I do agree with the rest though, you are indeed stupid (on a different perspective though). If you're unhappy with the system, why do it and end up whining?

Adrian
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 6:38 AM
Joined: 08/08/2009
Posts: 17


Since 2002 I have "sponsored" 3 yachts of which I lost $5600 on the 1st, broke even on the second as I took what was owed to me off the freshly paid credit card and this yacht I still work on. I know the cash is there and it's coming but with the owners assistant it never arrives on time although it's gotten better over the last 1.5 years. I spend my cash because some things just need to get done and I want them done now not Monday or next Wed. As much as I hate to do it I am fully aware that I might not get that final payment...on the flip side I have set myself a cap of $1000US so worst case I lose 3 nice dinners out. Be careful and as one other poster mentioned try not paying for stuff for 2 months and just email status reports i.e fridge problem-will repair when funds arrive/washing machine broken-will repair etc etc etc.
junior
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 8:58 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Most times when I spend my own money its because I failed to budget correctly. Another use of personal money is when you are on the road, guarding the boat cash, and some unforeseen expense arrives. In either case when I spend my own money I am inevitably disciplined by the owner . When you spend your own money for the yacht, you are spending for an unauthorized expense then presenting this receipt to the owner and telling him...you must pay. Not a good idea to personally finance the yacht, not a good idea to spend unauthorized money.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:14 AM
The spectacularly abusive behaviors of some owner astound me. Yachting is a reckless and unprofessional business because brokers, yacht managers, captains, crews enable the status quo to exist. I’ve been stiffed more than once in yachting and I am certain it will occur again sometime in the future. My current employer is notoriously ruthless and an expert manipulator. Everyone needs and wants something it seems and those amongst us that willingly cross commonsense boundaries should not blame the yacht owner, they should blame themselves. I’ve walked off three yachts during my career and would gladly do the same if my financial security or personal safety is ever compromised again. Dime a dozen Captains, naïve young Captains and fraudulent Captains ruin themselves, their crew and the business of yachting. Anyone foolish enough to subsidize a yacht owner deserves to get their fingers burnt, because naivety is only ever overcome when the lessons of life pile above ones neck.
junior
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:07 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Well anonymous, when you work on yachts you are in reality an independent subcontractor. Ask any subcontractor whether he has been stiffed or has outstanding bills ! I say be smart... dont spend boat money that has not been authorized, don't get in over your head with money owed and avoid yachts which are notorious for financial problems..
tubby
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:46 PM
Joined: 19/02/2009
Posts: 11


ahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhah, you manaage the boats money !!!!!!!!!!!!!
pay yourself back and make sure you keep accurate records. set a limit and be done with it. 1000usd too low, a months salary toooooo high. there are a ton of options to using your own money but i will tell you this. you are not stupid, it is important to run the boat smoothly. pay contractors? NEVER! it is business! but i will tell you also to keep money issues private, you can lose good crew if they think the money is tight and they aren't going to get paid, or if they are consistently paid late. The problem is that our business is the business of saying YES not NO.

Lori
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 2:48 PM
Joined: 19/01/2009
Posts: 11


Ed Lee . . . . you're an idiot!!!  The bottom line is . . . . no one should be "financing/subsidizing" the owner's expenses even if they are paid back in a timely manner!!!  This also puts you in the position of chasing the owner around to get reimbursed . . . . and many times, they make you feel like scum for doing so!

Also, all you captains out there who run charter vessels, be careful not to receive tip money from charterers in check form IN YOUR NAME, as you will be asked to cash the check (through your personal or business bank account) and disperse the tips to the rest of the crew.  This will appear like money you've made and if the IRS comes a'diggin', you'll have much to explain (like why you haven't claimed your tips in the past, for instance). 

chris
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 4:28 PM
Joined: 03/08/2009
Posts: 4


MY DEAR FRIEND , CHANGE OWNER !!!!!!!!!!!!. Your boss has enough money to take care of is boat and not enough respect for the people who take care of it. He is just doing business , attention to you bank account , you could bankrupt in a flash !!!! It happened to me ......
rodsteel
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 6:24 PM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 277


junior wrote:
...When you spend your own money for the yacht, you are spending for an unauthorized expense then presenting this receipt to the owner and telling him...you must pay. Not a good idea to personally finance the yacht, not a good idea to spend unauthorized money.


 

Anon,

 

In my opinion junior is correct. Unless your contract states otherwise, you are personally and legally responsible for unauthorized business expenditures (and, if they are not unexpected, the situation will reflect on your budgeting skills). In my previous life, I have logged over 1M of, mostly business, airmiles and related accomodation expenses. Most of those were charged to my personal credit card and expensed to my current employer on a monthly basis without my having to "eat" any of them. As junior says, the key enabling condition was that all expenses were pre-authorized (and thus I had legal protection for the re-imbursement). If you find yourself in a situation where an unauthorized expense is really necessary, take the time to notify the owner or management company and turn it into a legally binding authorized expense (otherwise, just notify them of the needed funds and wait).

 

Rod

 


EdLee
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 7:12 PM
Joined: 05/03/2010
Posts: 18


Lori wrote:
Ed Lee . . . . you're an idiot!!!  The bottom line is . . . . no one should be "financing/subsidizing" the owner's expenses even if they are paid back in a timely manner!!!  This also puts you in the position of chasing the owner around to get reimbursed . . . . and many times, they make you feel like scum for doing so!

Also, all you captains out there who run charter vessels, be careful not to receive tip money from charterers in check form IN YOUR NAME, as you will be asked to cash the check (through your personal or business bank account) and disperse the tips to the rest of the crew.  This will appear like money you've made and if the IRS comes a'diggin', you'll have much to explain (like why you haven't claimed your tips in the past, for instance). 

Lori, even if you do not agree with me, name-calling like this is unnecessary. Heard of the saying - it takes one to know another?

If nobody should be made to "finance/subsidize" any unforeseen expenses as described, who will? I do agree to a certain extend such situations should be avoided. One owner may reimbursed on a timely manner, but we can't say the same for every owner. However, the same rule applies to the crew.

Now since you are taking that stance, Lori, tell me... are you able to produce a 100% accurate finance projection? It's your onus to prove it. Every job, at sea or on land, comes with their respective pros and cons. Stating the reality of a job does not make me an idiot. One is only a scum if you think of yourself as a scum. Afterall, yacht crew are not the only people chasing for payments. Yards chase owners/captains, suppliers chase agencies, companies chase clients... it goes on and on.

So let me pose the situation to you since you're THAT smart. You are in your yacht as captain, there's an emergency repair that is needed to be done but your owner is overseas on a business trip and cannot be reached temporarily. But yet, the repair (costing more than authorized contingency budget) cannot wait. Any delay may result in even more extensive damage to the boat and obviously cost even more. So dear Lori, what do you do? Do you still stand by your belief that nobody should be made to "finance/subsidize" the repair works first, let the boat sit and rot until the owner comes back with money?

If you don't want such a situation, then you better be able to produce a 100% accurate projection without any derailment. It's only rightful. There are also plenty of yacht crews taking owners for a ride, strangely, everybody keeps absolutely silent about it.

It's ok to criticize or whine a little, but be fair. Don't whine like as if the whole world owes you a living. Certainly, as I discovered, owners don't owe you a living. You can leave if you are unhappy. There will always be somebody else eager to take your place. Cannot face up to the reality? Too bad.

Lori - read Rodsteel's comments. ==> Unless your contract states otherwise, you are personally and legally responsible for unauthorized business expenditures (and, if they are not unexpected, the situation will reflect on your budgeting skills).

If you're not up to it, then you don't deserve the salary you are paid or the salary you are worth. Flat simple.

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 7:57 PM
Dear Ed, I am with Lori on this one, we are not talking about unauthorised expenditure here, we are talking about doing what the owner has requested & then having the the boat credit card fail, or the promised cash not arriving. Regarding budgeting, if the owner will not pay or allow time for preventative maintenance how are we to predict when & what will fail, & if as usual the failure occurs in August in the Med. & you have a charter imminent & the extent of the problem cannot be ascertained until the failed piece of machinery is stripped down how are you to budget for that?
             I know many people will say you should quit such a situation, but as has been mentioned on another subject you are not told of these problems before you join a yacht & nobody in brokerage.management or hiring likes a quitter.

Captain Brian
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 8:27 PM
Joined: 11/09/2009
Posts: 12


You're not stupid.  But, a bit naive and you're being played for a sucker.  Almost anybody who can afford what we run has enough business sense to know that funding the boat thru periodically reimbursing you has numerous financial advantages.  I know all too well---I've done it myself far too many times.  Remember this one thing: The first rule of yachting is 'Never Spend Your Own Money'.  So, the next time he wants to be picked up tomorrow in Nassau, and his credit card is rejected when you're trying to get underway, do not pull your card out.
EdLee
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:25 PM
Joined: 05/03/2010
Posts: 18


Anonymous wrote:
Dear Ed, I am with Lori on this one, we are not talking about unauthorised expenditure here, we are talking about doing what the owner has requested & then having the the boat credit card fail, or the promised cash not arriving. Regarding budgeting, if the owner will not pay or allow time for preventative maintenance how are we to predict when & what will fail, & if as usual the failure occurs in August in the Med. & you have a charter imminent & the extent of the problem cannot be ascertained until the failed piece of machinery is stripped down how are you to budget for that? I know many people will say you should quit such a situation, but as has been mentioned on another subject you are not told of these problems before you join a yacht & nobody in brokerage.management or hiring likes a quitter.

Anon, if you're the same Anon who started the thread, then you should be specific that "CREDIT CARD FAIL or PROMISED CASH NOT ARRIVING" because nowhere in the original post indicated those. As far as I can read from the original post in the author's own words (I even had to re-read several times to be sure), the owner reimbursed the money and no mention of a delinquent owner. They are two very different scenarios that call for different set of reaction or course of actions.

But if you are not the thread starter, then I'm afraid both of you are out of point. (Does anybody in here has anything positive to share? Other than Auntie Agony threads?)

how are we to predict when & what will fail, & if as usual the failure occurs in August in the Med. & you have a charter imminent & the extent of the problem cannot be ascertained until the failed piece of machinery is stripped down how are you to budget for that?

I understand it is difficult for anyone to predict that. Even I myself can't predict that. Does that automatically mean it's the owner's fault whenever you - the crew - can't predict what will fail? Are we degrading to a point whereby we are expecting owners to predict what we ourselves can't predict? C'mon, let's talk some common sense here can we? If it's not within the hands of anybody, myself or the owner, I wouldn't start a thread and start bashing owners.

Let's quit this "it's never my fault, it's always the owners' fault" culture here. It's disgraceful. It's easy to take cheap shots at one another with just a few words. I rest my case here, have fun taking cheap pot shots at owners and blame the world on them. Crew are perfect!

An Owner
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:35 PM
Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 53


It is amazing what an owner can learn here. I'd have thought the situation described in this thread to be virtually impossible as I would have assumed all owners would have a specific policy that the captain (or authorized crew) never be allowed to use their own money on the boats expenditures. My own have a number of accounts to insure acceptance anywhere and the captain is required to maintain a minimum amount of cash on hand depending on local customs. Granted that amount is usually ridiculously low and she does complain about frequent trips to the bank, but, it has to be preferable to explaining exactly why she dipped into her own pocket for one of my expenses. Even in the most unforeseeable of circumstances I am never more than a phone call away.  

Did I read this correctly? This captain is using the boat cash to pay contractors and suppliers because he has built trust with them? Did he mention a credit card failing? (I don't think so) It sounds as if he is choosing to pay those he wishes in cash when they are the very ones that should whenever possible be paid with a revolving credit account or card. Maybe I have missed something but the original post reads like a case of mistaken priorities, very bad budgeting and absolutely piss poor policy on the owners part. There is no acceptable excuse for this problem at any level.

14Freedom
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:53 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


To An Owner,

You seem to get it, once again. But here is the ???. Do you communicate with other owners about how you run the financial end?

I've been lucky: fueling on my Amex, provisioning on my Amex, tipping on my salary. I know of several Captains who paid out of pocket for delayed/non-existant wire transfers, Credit cards at/over limit (and the billing goes to the home company), not being paid and even Fed Marshall's seizing a boat. I can name three people who are owed a cumulative 40K plus, and to file in FL requires a retainer. More $$$ out of pocket.

No crew should be asked to put up their own dollars for your toy. Have your friends done as you profess to do?

ATB-
The Slacker

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:18 PM
Hi everyone

I would like to thank all the participants on this thread for the educational discussion
That's true, I'm new to the Industry and never thought about this subject before.
I've always been told to leave the MS and move to the YI cause there's where the money is
After reading all the above ... I'm just ... LOL
Thank you very much for the advise, dear captains.
I'm sure I will be much more careful before accepting a job....
.... well..... if I manage to get a job...

An Owner
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 12:53 AM
Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 53


14Freedom wrote:
To An Owner,

You seem to get it, once again. But here is the ???. Do you communicate with other owners about how you run the financial end?...
...No crew should be asked to put up their own dollars for your toy. Have your friends done as you profess to do?

ATB-
The Slacker





I would feel fairly confident that the people that we associate with would follow the same general accounting and business practices, however, I wouldn't consider it dinner table conversation by any means. As I said, I am shocked that the situation is even possible and still have a hard time believing it is common practice.

The only thing I can chalk it up to is that there are now many more types of owners than there was even 20 years ago. When I bought my first boat I would have been laughed out the door for even suggesting that my bank finance the transaction. The guy running a shrimp boat could and so could the would be shipping magnate, but a luxury yacht not showing a tangible income....forget it.  We've lived through some very prosporus times which opened many doors but that it the thing with open doors. Flies always get in and that includes people that cannot actually afford their passion and Captains that would misappropriate boat cash for a kickback instead of using a traceable credit line. (I am not saying that is what happened. Just that it is one possible reason for bad financial management practices)

One the other hand, there are industries (specifically charter aircraft) where it used to be the generally accepted practice that the pilots were their own business and had their own corporate accounts for expenses that were subsequently billed to us. I had one chief pilot who was responsible for hiring enough pilots to keep them flying as many hours as possible. Everyone but him owned their own business. It was a model that worked, and worked well until such time that those same doors were opened to many.

In conclusion one has to answer a very basic question. Is yachting better off opened to many more thousands of owners, captains, crews, contractors and suppliers? Or is it better to shrink it back to the few and far between in order to raise the quality of of the former. (Assuming of course that the worms could actually be put back in the can)


P.S. My Captain just informed me that it does indeed happen and handed me a receipt for one case of Deep Woods Off. She is still laughing so please disregard any concern about having to explain herself.

Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 2:38 AM
Dear Ed, & "An owner" I am not the original poster @ for a proper yacht owner I can imagine your amazement that Capts. regularly have to dip into their own pockets for say $10,000 to pay subcontractors or dayworkers at weeks end because the boss cannot come at the last minute, but will " definitely be there next week". You have discussed this expenditure with the Boss & he has approved the cheaper "cash subcontractor" option or the dayworkers @ $15. ph. rather than the boatyard $60 ph., option. Of course when he does arrive he will give you the cash he promised last week but not the cash for this week so you will always be a week behind. In the back of your mind you know that you have been screwed again but what can you do, the boss says "get this done now, I will bring the money down Friday" you hire people who are living hand to mouth, you work them hard & then the boss calls & says he will be delayed, what do you tell your workers "sorry you are going to have to live on the street & beg for food" or do you honour your word, pay them & hope that this time it will be different. This is not fiction it has happened to me more than once, each time you say " never again" but then an owner convinces you that he has been unfairly maligned by dishonest crew ( and we do know there are those that think they are entitled to live like a billionaire because they work for one) & we have to say "yes sir" or "send the money first, I don't trust you". Which do you chose to further your career in yachting.

Henning
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 4:27 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1052


EdLee wrote:

So let me pose the situation to you since you're THAT smart. You are in your yacht as captain, there's an emergency repair that is needed to be done but your owner is overseas on a business trip and cannot be reached temporarily. But yet, the repair (costing more than authorized contingency budget) cannot wait. Any delay may result in even more extensive damage to the boat and obviously cost even more.


I'm not Lori, but personally, in a situation like that, I'd be calling the insurance company. Most likely anything that results in a situation like that will be an insured event and somebody needs to get onto the insurance company right away. Typically all costs incurred to secure the insured property and prevent further damage are covered and even outside of the deductible.

EdLee
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 6:42 AM
Joined: 05/03/2010
Posts: 18


Henning wrote:
EdLee wrote:

So let me pose the situation to you since you're THAT smart. You are in your yacht as captain, there's an emergency repair that is needed to be done but your owner is overseas on a business trip and cannot be reached temporarily. But yet, the repair (costing more than authorized contingency budget) cannot wait. Any delay may result in even more extensive damage to the boat and obviously cost even more.


I'm not Lori, but personally, in a situation like that, I'd be calling the insurance company. Most likely anything that results in a situation like that will be an insured event and somebody needs to get onto the insurance company right away. Typically all costs incurred to secure the insured property and prevent further damage are covered and even outside of the deductible.

That's what I call professional.

You consider and choose the solution, not sit the problem around and blame the yacht owner thereafter.

An Owner
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 8:39 AM
Joined: 15/01/2009
Posts: 53


Anonymous wrote:
...This is not fiction it has happened to me more than once, each time you say " never again" but then an owner convinces you that he has been unfairly maligned by dishonest crew ( and we do know there are those that think they are entitled to live like a billionaire because they work for one) & we have to say "yes sir" or "send the money first, I don't trust you". Which do you chose to further your career in yachting.




Rest assured I no longer believe it is fiction. I had simply never heard of anything remotely resembling what has been described. The situation never would have occurred to me simply because I assumed all big boats were run pretty much the same. Every one I am aware of are run as their own entity I.E. Corporation. My own is it's own company and operates as a subsidiary of our Panamanian Corporation. It has it's own accountants, it's own land based office/warehouse, and it's own separate credit line and bank accounts.  The Captain is the boats chief executive who submits a yearly budget projection which is funded and audited quarterly.  She has full signatory rights to a predetermined amount on a single transaction, after which both our signatures become necessary. Since anything over 10k in cash will get you the twice over in most ports, the only thing she has to do is find a Citibank (they're everywhere) and make a withdraw if a card or credit will not do. There is no reason for me to have to approve any preventive maintenance or repair. It is her job to determine these things, not mine.

This is why I say that there is no need or excuse for the owner to have to bring cash down at any time, unless of course he is in over his head. I couldn't begin to tell you how to deal with such a situation as a Captain, but I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that my own would have been long gone many years ago if she were ever put in such an embarrassing and humiliating situation such as you describe.

If an owner is convincing you that they have been maligned by dishonest crew and that is their excuse, you're certainly being fed a crock of shit. Unless the crew is unloading the art work and parting out one of the mains a piece at a time the damage they can do with proper practices are limited. We all get beat every single day. The key is to not get beat in a big way. Frankly, I don't know anyone who really gives a damn about a 5 or 10% kickback here and there and I couldn't care less if a stew lost a receipt because it had the latest Chanel makeup kit on it. If she likes it and orders it for the wives of my guests then everyone wins.    


junior
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 9:01 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


One thing is certain. When you go for the interview on a new project, the most critical discussion you must have with the owner is...what is the budget ? On a good yacht you should be able to look at the past yacht operating budget then ascertain whether you can operate under the same rules. Face it...some yachts run on a shoe string. .
Henning
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 9:40 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1052


To An Owner:

You sound like an honest and reasonable person, and probably make your living in an honest and reasonable way which is why you expect people to behave in an honest and reasonable fashion. Sadly, this is not a universal truth among yacht owners. There is a fair percentage that are crooks, some just by being ruthless bastards at business, some outrightly operating major criminal enterprises. They earn their money in dishonest and disreputable manners. They not only "try to get over" on everybody possible, because they believe themselves better than everybody and it is their right to do so, they also live in a constant paranoid state that someone is trying to get over on them so they micromanage everything, and screw anyone they think they can.

Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, May 6, 2010 2:06 PM
Thank you, "An owner" thank you Henning. One further addendum, I have never taken any form of kickback, I have never considered it at all in the US and when it comes into the negotiations in Europe I have always asked that it be shown on the invoice/receipt as an early payment discount, my job is to get the best deal for my principal, his job is to pay the bills & wages as agreed.

 
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