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For sale? Will you be the victim of a 'Fresh Start'?
YachtAuditing
Posted: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:45 PM
Joined: 25/09/2008
Posts: 4


Mention the words ‘For Sale’ around yacht crew and they’ll most likely feel tingles up their spine. Historically, when yachts are for sale, most crew become nervous fearful of losing their jobs. Explained under the guise of a ‘Fresh Start’, it is merely a result of not marketing the yacht’s operations. It is common knowledge captains will forward their CV’s to yacht brokers to recommend employment upon sale. Not to point fingers in this instance, it is simply the evolution of yachting to present day. Abolish the idea of automatically replacing crew upon sale and automatically diminish costs upon handover. Turn poor morale around and motivate crew to assist in the selling process. How? Develop a ‘Survey Report’ on crew operating practices just like a marine surveyor does with the nuts and bolts. Take recommendations to improve crew practices and procedures and market the crew as part of the package - just like a charter broker totes good crew as integral to a memorable cruise. Would this help crew careers?
junior
Posted: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:56 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Hmm.....not sure exactly what your getting at.   Ive worked many years on boats and when I work on boats I don't work for the boat...I work for the owner.   A person ..not a thing.   Many people in this industry forget this

.
 If you are suggesting that your present owner is getting out of yachting and that you wish to stay on your trusty yacht with the new owner, then perhaps you have a point. 
   Remember , many owners transport their existing crew to the new yacht.  Its only natural....as captain you would naturally  prefer to run your new project with your trusted crew. 
  I have first hand experience with taking over as the new captain and inheriting the OLD CREW.  not a pleasant experience.  I'm not interested in propagating the old captains bad habits...its why he lost his job. I might be just as suspect if I were the new yacht owner taking over the old crew.
 I'm still not clear on what your proposing. 
  For me when a project comes to an end the most valuable thing that the old owner can do is to write  first class references and forward my, our,  names to any of his contacts in yachting.   Nothing more. 

     Crew that are interested in protecting their careers would be well advised not to cling to yachts, but to continuously cultivate VERY good professional relations with all the powers to be in the yachting industry.  That means the shipyards, managers, charter brokers etc...they are the ones who will direct you towards your next opportunity because it is in their best interests.


YachtAuditing
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2009 12:26 AM
Joined: 25/09/2008
Posts: 4


"I might be just as suspect if I were the new yacht owner taking over the old crew." Exactly! - Presently new ownership have no way of knowing if the crew will be suitable. New owners examine the 'thing' - as you put it - by doing a structural survey, but forget the people. It is assumed - correctly or not - that they have bad habits and are replaced, yet by what methods do we give it consideration? Rather than describe my own situation or experiences, what we are proposing, is a review of the crew such that their performance can be used to assist the marketing of the yacht and themselves - not as a commodity to be traded - but that the verification of what they do contributes positively to the condition of the yacht and the enjoyment of its guests, hence represents a stable crew benefiting both new and existing ownership - without the need to replace crew at ownership's expense. Perhaps a good subject for an industry survey is: "How many yacht owners retain their crew upon sale?" Crew Agents may be a good source of data reporting on how often the 'reason for leaving' is "The yacht was for sale". Hope this helps. Scott Bartle
junior
Posted: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:48 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


I see what your getting at, but I can tell you straight off that you will be making a very difficult decision if you are the company entrusted with performing this review.
    My experience is that all crews, if they manage to stay with the same boat for a few years, are doing a good job.  When I see 2 good boats, side by side , the only way I would be able to differentiate between the skill and professionalism of the two crews would be to have a hard, detailed look at the ships accounts.

   How much money do they spend to deliver the product ?

   Do you think that you, as the yacht audit company performing the review would have access to these accounts ?   Remember, its awful easy to look good if you spend a ton of money.  Ive been on my hands and knees for the past two weeks working on the teak deck....that captain next door hired a subcontractor and is on the golf course....will you know this  ? 
   The  owner that is bringing his trusty crew  with him to the new yacht will know this variable very well.
  Are you going to criticize me when you audit my yacht and see unfashionable outdated  equipment ?  If so let me prepare you... because you will just break into laughter when you see me ancient yacht tender. 
. Are you going to degrade my performance as captain for cooperating with the owners finances ?
I work closely with the owner to make his ownership experience fit his financial expectations......how will you judge this ??  

I say that the only detail that the next customer needs to look at is my reference from my owner and the fact that I have been here  for 13 years.....after that its a straight personality call. Either I blend in with the new program or I don't.  

    I shiver when I realize that you are proposing one more layer of bureaucracy, one more shore side influence peddler that I have to ass kiss when  looking for my next job


Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:26 AM
what a load of...... I have just taken over a Yacht for the new owner, some of the crew were retained others not.... based on their merits and compatibility, the previous Captain departed, his own choice, to seek fresh horizons. Incidentally, my original portfolio was to survey and asses the vessel for the new owner, and to asses the crew who all in my opinion were competent and suitable, (one exception) as the newcomer to the team I consider myself priveliged to join their ranks. New Owner or not, we do work for the Man, our loyalty is to the Man whom we serve, if that "man" changes then we renew our loyalty, the boat is just the platform that (hopefully) keeps our royal feet dry. C
junior
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:01 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Precisely Anonymous...you represent the interests of  the man who pays your wage. 
    To gain his confidence , you have put in much time interacting with him, overcoming  a wide range of challenges..  He now relies on you to develop his new program according to your instincts.
    If you feel comfortable with the crew vibe...Great, if not, bring in your own gang.  Its the way it has always been and will always be.
  I just cant imagine how a Third Party Yacht audit could be involved in this natural cycle.
    Yacht Audit, If you are intent on setting up a shoreside yacht company to improve the industry ,Id suggest  you develop a company that audits the practices of crew agencies and yachtmaster schools. 
    18,000  full paid up,  licensed , superyacht crew candidates on line and ready to go with 200 placements last year ???......  Give the various agencies a rating according to their placement rates.  Provide these poor young crew with guidance.   That ought to stir up the hornets nest.....

Captain Stern
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:03 AM
Joined: 03/10/2008
Posts: 2


Hello to all enjoying better weather than me in South Wales UK. As well as instructing and delivering I have a company selling boat cleaning gear and fuel treatments in the UK. I am about to set up manufacturing in the US. Can any one help by advising me on the best magazines to advertise in?

 

David (Captain Stern)

www.marine16.co.uk


junior
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 10:48 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Yo Dave...Might raise hackles to answer this on a site like Dockwalk.  Sites like this  are 50 percent people trying to sell you something and 50 percent beginner crew looking for a job.  Dont think that you will interact with many knowledgeable end users on it.

Publications like

Professional boatbuilder      www.proboat.com
Boat design net                 boatdesign.net

are popular with professionals.

 You seem to imply fuel products

sites like www.yachtengineers.net are home to motorheads

 
Or you might try approaching the big superyacht groups that provide fuel services

Right over on your side of the pond  is a big international yacht bunkering and lubricant provider called  YCO Deuxmill Plc ...they are the owners of YachtHelp..... www.deuxmilmarine.com     might be worth an approach


YachtAuditing
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 3:49 PM
Joined: 25/09/2008
Posts: 4


Mention has been made of captains leaving of their own accord - this does not relate to the topic of a 'Fresh Start'. Mention was made about captains being replaced due to his 'bad habits' - this does not relate to a 'Fresh Start'. A 'Fresh Start' is when a captain or crew is replaced during the sale of a yacht for no other reason than the yacht broker's recommendation for it. The fact is, the paradigm of a 'Fresh Start' exists in yachting. Our contention is there are many good captains who are replaced unnecessarily - at whose expense? Correspondingly, in the time it takes to sell a yacht, crew motivation drops due to the fear of losing their employment upon sale. I challenge that aspect of yachting and propose benefits to both ownership, crew and the marketing yacht broker. December's Dockwalk magazine quoted a marine surveyor: "Don't see the class surveyor as the police, We're here to help, not hurt."
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 4:01 PM

I disagree with Junior. (Although that makes me wonder what you're trying to sell?) I think most of us would be offended by your 'not knowledgeable end users' comment. Really? I'm not just saying this because I'm on the site, but all the crew i know read the magazine which has been around for a long time, and alot of them check out the Website too.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:05 PM

I understand that thru Yacht Auditing you are endeavoring to increase  general efficiency in the  industry by allowing Yacht crews an avenue to better cultivate their image and career.  Sounds like a great idea to me !!!  The yachting industry is terribly inefficient.
  I just don't understand how you are going to do it.  I have a lifetime in the yachting industry.  During this time  I have seen an explosion of middle men, consultants arrive.  Each has its own agenda.  How will you overcome this ?  How will you cultivate their cooperation ?  How will you gain the confidence of the crew, owners, brokers and shipyards.  I can tell you straight off that a broker or shipyard much prefers to have one of their own men in charge...they are trying to secure future sales and work with the customer and are very sensitive to bad crew blowback. I have gotten all my jobs as captain from  shipyard or broker references.

Oh and  Anonymous, I work on yachts and am not selling anything.  The reason I said that there are fewer educated end users  on this site who could help steer this fellow towards  successful manufacturing and marketing of his product is that I can clearly see   on the technical side of this forum  that there are  about 10.... that's right TEN replies.   Take a trip over to  boat design net and you can review 25,000  !!!   Different world.


junior
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:12 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Opps !!   forgot to log on...sorry about that Yacht Auditing...I dislike posts with no ID. ...and good to see someone out there trying to clean up this industry....
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 6:00 PM

All I was trying to say, junior,was that who else would be a better 'end user' than someone like a Deckhand or Engineer who actually will use the product? If David is looking for manufacturers, that's a whole different ballgame, but that's not my understanding from his posting. And there seem to be alot of opinionated Captains on the site, some of which provide good feedback.


junior
Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 6:33 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Sorry I read .....  "  I am about to set up manufacturing in the US. "        and those words led me to direct Dave to forums that discuss these things.  Perhaps I should have tipped him off to the   Dockwalk Crew confessor ???   Thats a very active thread. 
 
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