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Must be crazy to post such an audacious post! American yachties please read.
Debbie
Posted: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:16 AM

I posted this on FaceBook [Yacht Force's page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/YachtForce/21669548329], so I'm just relaying this message on this forum:

[after watching Yacht Force's Intro video] 
 Fellow Americans, this website and much of this industry constantly touts "like minded" crew or candidates. Although much of this industry has stayed afloat via US dollars, much of these US dollars have gone to "like minded" yachties..as the guy in the video tends to promote. And those "like minded" people are not US. Rarely are American yachties, especially males are hired on exclusive yachts. And even if many of these yachts, US flagged or not, are owned by Americans, Americans are rarely hired or are given a chance to be recruited. Americans are becoming a dying breed in this industry especially American males. So I ask my fellow Americans--no matter how cheesy you think this post is [and I am cheesy by the way], to join a revolution worth being touted. Speak out if you share the same concerns, and here's a good start: American yacht owners.

To add, I would also like to mention that I'm sharing my concerns based upon my experience of three years of being a stewardess. I've seen so many yachts and yachties on these yachts from Lauderdale, the Caribbean, NE USA to parts of the Med...and rarely do I see Americans, especially American males, in the same measure as I've seen of Anglo and European internationals. I'm not anti International, I'm just Anti-Anti American.  It's so easy for crew agents and yachties, especially non Americans, to just brush messages like this off as obnoxious, ignorant, and just plain crazy...but the truth still shows it's gorgeous face year after year. And I believe many of these folks unabashedly realize the truth of what really has gone on in this industry which has perpetuated some blatant discrimination against the hiring and proper treatment towards American yachties. Sometimes it's hard to tell what's really going when there's so many in this industry who have such conniving mannerisms...but I guess it took me about half a year to figure some of this out.

Sure, you'll see Americans on yachts..but they're usually working on older and smaller yachts that may not yield significant income or a more structured professional crew as with larger or more exclusive yachts. 

As soon as I, myself, started sharing my concerns to a few crew agents, yachties, cough-writing an article about it-cough, and a few captains, I quickly realized that my time in this industry would soon come to an end. By the time I did some YouTubing, I already knew what was in store for me, but to ignore these concerns and continue on as if this is all no big deal was already a futile effort for me to do so.

Many of the international yachties' CVs explicitely dictate obtaining a B1B2 visa, however from what I've understood,  it is against US law for anyone to use the same B1 Visa that was previously appointed for employment on a previous yacht  that they once worked on.  Each individual is supposed to apply for a B1 while going through a waiting process. Unfortunately, many either ignore this entire law all together or fly out to, say, the Bahamas to obtain a B1 upon re-entering the US.   Something US Customs in South Florida is all too familiar and apathetic to. Go figure. 

 

 

 

 


Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, October 12, 2008 11:55 AM

G’day Debbie,

We must remember the nature of sailing the seas is a Truly International Scenario, the places we go, the people we meet & the diverse crews we have onboard are the pluses without doubt. As good as all that sounds there are some real issues behind your concerns, with the exception of the Sport Fishing sector you are very correct that there are not a great deal of Americans who are crew on Superyachts, there may be a few reasons for this.

 

  1. I have had a number Owners & Captains (usually American’s themselves) who specifically ask to not have US crew. This mat be because of some perceptions as follows

·        Poor work ethic & are demanding

·        What happens onboard stays onboard – they don’t want to see themselves on Entertainment Tonight after having to many cocktails & are more worried about this with US crew

·        Litigious attitude

·        Increasingly due to International matters the dislike of Americans in selected countries & associated possible entry / safety issues.

  1. The Jones Act
    • Many US owners for a variety of reasons do not register there vessels in the USA – to change that you need to deal with Congress, if I were an American owner I would not have my Superychat US registered either.
  2. Only a small amount of US candidates apply for a given position – for the past 20 years this has always amazed me, for what ever reason it does not seem to be a career choice of appeal to many Americans compared to other nations.
  3. At the end of the day the position will be filled by the most suitable candidate & if that candidate lives up to his or her CV will then keep that position. So it is up to the individual to get the job & keep it – not what passport they have.

Visa - without getting into the nitting gritty of legalities as there is always many ways of looking at legal matters, we must remeber the B1-B2 visa does not let a person work in the USA, it lets them be onboard a FORIGN flagged vessel that has entered the country. So you are not letting people immigrate to the USA with that status, in one form or another it is the same in the other countries we vist. It should aslo be noted that reguardless of how many counties we visit world wide most crew nearly always end up going "Home" at the end of ther career.

 

For many years I was involved in a 2 boat operation, the Sport Boat Captains were always Americans as were many of the crew, the Mothership was nearly always Captained by Australians with a mixed crew. It was a special operation that was that way because of the hard work & true dedication the crew had to each other plus an exceptional owner who you would do just about anything for. So I certainly have never baulked at hiring Americans nor have they ever shied away from hiring me – as mentioned earlier it is an International Industry that due to its nature truly travels the world – that is its beauty.

 

Regards,

Mark


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 13, 2008 4:25 AM

Thanks for your response, Mark.

I'd like to know what other American yachties think of the Jones Act..either as being helpful and protecting Americans yachties in a fair sense or not.

Reform of Jones Act Would Cause Unfair Competition Among Foreign Flagged Vessels:

http://www.lcaships.com/smith.html

More Info on Jones Act:

From Wikipedia [not always fair and balanced...but seems to have good info on Jones Act]

Seaman's rights

The U.S. Congress adopted the Merchant Marine Act in 1920, formerly 46 USC Sec. 688 and codified on October 6, 2006 as 46 USC Sec. 30104. The Act formalized the rights of seaman which have been recognized for centuries.

"From the very beginning of American civilization, courts have protected seaman whom the courts have described as 'unprotected and in need of counsel; because they are thoughtless and require indulgence; because they are credulous and complying; and are easily overreached. They are emphatically the wards of admiralty.'" Capitol Hill Hearing Testimony, Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee; Testimony by John Hickley, attorney at law. Congressional Quarterly. March 27, 2007.

It allows injured sailors to obtain damages from their employers for the negligence of the shipowner, the captain, or fellow members of the crew. It operates simply by extending similar legislation already in place that allowed for recoveries by railroad workers and providing that this legislation also applies to sailors. Its operative provision is found at 46 U.S.C. 688(a), which provides:

"Any sailor who shall suffer personal injury in the course of his employment may, at his election, maintain an action for damages at law, with the right to trial by jury, and in such action all statutes of the United States modifying or extending the common-law right or remedy in cases of personal injury to railway employees shall apply..."

This allows U.S. seamen to bring actions against ship owners based on claims of unseaworthiness or negligence. These are rights not afforded by common international maritime law.

The United States Supreme Court, in the case of Chandris, Inc., v. Latsis, 515 U.S. 347, 115 S.Ct. 2172 (1995), has ruled that any worker who spends more than 30 percent of his time in the service of a vessel on navigable waters qualifies as a seaman under the act. An action under the act may be brought either in a U.S. federal court or in a state court.

Support for Jones Act

Supporters of the Shipping Act maintain that the legislation is of strategic economic and wartime interest to the United States. The act, they say, protects the nation's sealift capability and its ability to produce commercial ships. In addition, the act is seen as a vital factor in helping maintain a viable workforce of trained merchant mariners for commerce and national emergencies. Supporters say that it also protects seafarers from deplorable living and working conditions often found on foreign-flagged ships.[2]

Some proponents make the case that allowing foreign-flagged ships to engage in commerce in American domestic sea lanes would be like letting a foreign automaker establish a plant in the U.S. which doesn't have to pay U.S. wages, taxes, or meet national safety or environmental standards.[3]

"If someone were to propose that we let foreign workers compete with GM workers in the U.S., they would be laughed at." Arthur J. Volkle, associate general counsel, MARITRANS Inc.; a Philadelphia-based tug and barge operator.[3]

My take on Jones Act:

I'm not too sure if the Jones Act seems fair all around in terms of business and profitability among American maritime employees, though it seems to exist as a necessity to protect the rights of Americans from unfair treatment and neglect by foreign crew/vessels.

Mark, from the post above, is merely giving the same kind of excuse and rhetoric as if it's a statement of fact.

I’ve heard this kind of stuff as if it’s a script that each and every Anglo/Euro international should memorize and follow. I don't know if many of these folks are more naïve about the truth of what exactly is going on in this industry, or if some folks are just bent on making excuses that are pretty naive and just plain weak for the sake of keeping Americans at bay.

And as far as behavioral issues among Americans being mentioned from your reply, I've met way more, Brits, South Africans, and Aussies cutting up in such immature and disrespectful ways even among foreign and American owners. I mean wow. Sure it takes all kinds to be ausses, but with all due respect….dude, give me a break. The sense of entitlement and delegation among these folks especially among the politically vulnerable and economically stressed SAs, is sometimes jaw dropping.

For those American yachtowners who tend to go along with your views at least as you say, I would chuck them up as among the feeble minded and uneducated rich...it's just with Eastern Europeans…or say Bill Maher..it’s everywhere when it comes to New or Old Money Rich people who are not that smart or diplomatic.

All in all, it seems to me, Jones Act or NOT, those Americans who are highly supported, well fed, and well educated just would not tolerate this industry and it's issues if they even thought about wanting to work in this biz. One main issue that I clearly find disturbing is this very high sense of group mentality among Brits, Aussies, SAs, and Kiwis and others among anglo international groups. I've also found that SAs tend to have more of a cohesive group mentality than any of these groups. I'm no expert, but I'm wondering if that has more do with white SA's  political and economical issues [and thier past compared to present]. 

I can't help but think that we as American yachties are dealing with folks who's backgrounds has been living off other's servitude to get by in thier homes....in opposite to what average Americans do in thier house hold. We've become more independent, self sufficient, while being more diplomatic to those who are among the poor. White SAs tend to have less of an appreciation for those who are different from them when it comes to economic class, not to mention race. 

That difference alone shows a difference in mentality and group mentality among say, SAs and Americans.  I believe there are many Americans who are aware of this industry, and many may show some interest, but as soon as many would, they can easily find this industry as unfairly inadequate in more ways than one. Many Americans can pull out sooner than those who are more politically and economically strapped and at the mercy of this industry.

 I think there is a much tougher issue that stands in the way of every average American yachtie, and that is being from a popular and powerfully economic and enriched [consumer based] country in which Europe and other countries haven't always completely revered us for having so much in oppurtunity.   This goes beyond George Bush and Iraq....just in case someone forgot.     

 


Charles A. Curren
Posted: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:47 AM
Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 2


That difference alone shows a difference in mentality and group mentality among say, SAs and Americans. I believe there are many Americans who are aware of this industry, and many may show some interest, but as soon as many would, they can easily find this industry as unfairly inadequate in more ways than one. Many Americans can pull out sooner than those who are more politically and economically strapped and at the mercy of this industry. I think there is a much tougher issue that stands in the way of every average American yachtie, and that is being from a popular and powerfully economic and enriched [consumer based] country in which Europe and other countries haven't always completely revered. I think you may have summed up the problem, both by what you have said, but also by what you haven’t said. Why the long dialog on the legal system? Why is general Maritime Law inferior to the US system? Why could we not have said that in the case of crew injury it is morally right to resolve the problem? We also have insurance for such things – it’s a requirement on red duster yachts. As to seaworthiness, whether or not to go to sea is a mater for the Master and information he observes or receives from his crew (Master actually stands for Master under God and under British Maritime Law this means that the owner cannot force his decisions based on sea state or condition of the vessel) I have hired many US crew over the years, as well as NZ, SA, British, Dutch, Mexican, Spanish, Canadian, Australian and others. I am proud to say that some of the Americans have gone on to be Capt’s I respect, so no I don’t have a problem hiring them. What I have also observed on occasions is the lack of willingness to travel (isn’t this what our business is all about?) I remember interviewing a stew, when she heard we were going beyond the state of Florida boarder – she refused the job!! I think you will find that other nationalities are more used to wandering and country % wise have a much higher rate of passports than American that I believe is still only about 20%. As to the Jones Act – this is pure protectionism, and technically means that American crews actually have a greater opportunity on non US flagged yachts, an American Capt with USCG license of 500 Tons or greater can apply to the MCA, CISR, etc. for a COC or equivalent license for that country. As A foreigner holding a MCA 3,000 MY the Jones act doesn’t allow me to do the same for an USCG COC? Is this fair? Does it give \Americans a slight edge? Yes. Do I blame Americans? No I blame our government who allows a system that doesn’t give reciprocal treatment to exist. I have sailed about 188,000 nm, mixed and worked with many nationals, in fact I had dinner last (Sunday) night in Marmaris with an old crew member who I haven’t seen for ten years. Sometimes when things like you describe happen its better to look inwards as opposed to grabbing the law books.
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, October 18, 2008 8:29 PM
There was nothing anti American about our decision to not employ American crew. It was simple economics. By not doing we saved substantial money on our crew accident and medical policy and our employers liability insurance. Insurers definitely do not care about creed and colour. It is all worked out by actuaries and the premiums were a direct reflection of the increased costs for insurers of dealing with American crew. Nothing more sinister than that I am afraid...
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, November 1, 2008 2:28 PM
One thing i have heard was that Americans have a hard time with the "extreme" service aspect of being crew.... We don't like to take orders.
Rich
Posted: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 5:56 PM
Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 1


Well let me give u a little insight from my side of the fence.
I am Canadian but consider myself more American for a number of reasons, I will not elaborate at this time.
The fact of the matter is how ALL the crew on American flag vessels are demanding that the currency being paid should be in Euros (I don't care if the boat is in the Med for the summer or anytime), your being employed by an American.
I have been employed by a foreign flag vessel (not American) for the last 12 years and would not change my currency as I have a lot of faith in the green back, end of subject.
The captains or mangers of American flag vessels should not even consider the change of currency!

Lets Roll 



William Widman
Posted: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:12 PM
Joined: 13/01/2009
Posts: 2


I am a very capable, hard-working, hands-on, honest captain. I love meeting people from different countries and cultures and consider myself a "citizen of the world". I truly have nothing against SA's, Aussies, Kiwis, Brit's, ect. However, I have to say that as an American, especially when I'm in Ft. Lauderdale, it starts to get on my nerves constantly hearing "hey might" (mate). I think to myself, where are all the Americans in this industry? I'm in my own country working in an industry flooded by foreigners, who by-and-large think of me as an American as a second-class citizen within the yachting community. I can't answer the question about who has the better work ethic, Americans or foreigners. But I can speak about myself, I truly am a dedicated and hard-working American. In fact, I've even had crew tell me that have worked with me that I'm probably one of the hardest working captain's in the industry. I'm not infering that I'm the only hardworking captain in the industry, there are many others as well. But we're a relatively small group compared to the many "white shirt" ego-driven captains.


junior
Posted: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:02 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


   Ya...as an American it sometimes  gets a bit tiring to be surrounded by Brits, Stralians and Kiwis.

  But Hey...its the life. 
  The way I see it , the number of British in the industry represents a tradition of seafaring. Its an Island nation and it breeds first class seaman.  Their fabulous Yachtmaster system creates a straightforward, non sea time, system for training entry level Junior sailors .  These young kids get a good backround in rules, procedures and find it easy to swing right into the Yachting seen  .  I have never met a totally incompetent British yachtmaser.  The US, if it wants to grow competent youngsters needs to establish a similar system.
 As far as using some kind of Jones Act to prohibit British Yachtys from competing for jobs on  yachts working the US coast ...BAD MOVE.  The British are not some economically distressed minority, fleeing poverty to find nirvana in the US..they are simply filing a job that has traditionally not attracted Americans.
 Furthermore...as an American who has worked the European yacht scene for decades,  I count myself blessed and fortunate that I have never encountered any official interference with my activities and have always felt welcome. It is our responsibility as Americans to apply this hospitality to our British friends.  If you are having trouble competing with the Brits for a yacht position...sharpen up your act.   Junior


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:56 PM
I think if more Americans wanted to stay long term in the industry they could certainly do it. I do not see a huge difference in ethics or standards. There are many cliched deficiencies applied to american crew. All are generally nonsense there are good crew and bad crew --period -- the good ones tend to stay around in the industry. The good American ones tend to move ashore, after they have accumulated sufficient funds, and start businesses related to yachting here in the states, or use their money to start other ventures in the states. They're are plenty of Americans running boats, I would venture to say a majority of the total yachts in Florida from 65ft and over have American Captains and crew on board. On the larger yachts that are non US flagged there are a greater number of international than American Captains and crew but there are lots of good reasons for that and discrimination is not a really one of them. I do admit that insurance costs are higher with American crew and some policies will state that the policy would need to be amended upwardly if American crew are hired. This virtually bans the hiring of Americans on certain yachts, but I think it applies to only a very small percentage.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:43 PM

Wow, two more strikes against me! I’m an American. I am male. And, I am new to yachting.

AND, I AM NOT GIVING UP! 

Somewhere, there is a beautiful motor vessel with engines, computers, and electronics that need tender loving care. I will bring to bear all the passion and skill I learned in the Navy and Merchant Marine, I will listen and learn, pitch in well with the crew whenever and wherever needed, climb the qualification and licensing ladders as rapidly as possible, and make some Captain proud that he hired me!  

Thank you very much.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:35 AM

Surely it's a simple case of hiring the right person for the right job regardless of race, colour or creed. Let's not go down the route of reverse discrimination and starting to hire crew based on their nationality as opposed to their experience and suitablity for the position. In the many years I have worked in the industry I have worked with all nationalities - some good, some bad, some indifferent regardless of where they came from. We can debate endelessly protectionism  and the Jones Act or higher insurance premiums when hiring Americans or the inequality in the fact  that Americans can work on Red duster yachts whilst Brits, Aussies etc. cannot however I think this only serves to cause divisions. Lets make love, not war!


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:52 PM

I am an American female mate who has been in the industry over 20 years.  I totally agree with William. 


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:05 PM
It’s naïve that Brits or any other national think the MCA is of supreme yacht training. Take a look at the recent Dockwalk on how much the MCA powers to-be recognize a need for restructuring. The sea time requirement is pathetic in terms of learning and experiencing work on a sea going vessel, I’ll say again “sea going”. The MCA follows a theoretical training program with a week of offshore practical. WOW what seaman’s you are! I had firsthand experience of taking over the engine room from an off going Y2. His laziness and lack of attention to detail and non-team player cost the owner over 20 grand in senseless repairs that would have been prevented if he had done some sort of preventive maintenance. This industry is not looking for the qualified crew member. They are looking for the stupid and cheap. There has not been a foreigner yet that has out- worked me in a single day, there tea time, and that’s not my job is always the song there singing.
Wes Walker
Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:45 PM
Joined: 23/05/2008
Posts: 1


Exactly what I needed to hear. “Make love, not war.” I can't explain how often I have heard or read that statement and never gave it the respect it deserves. I think everyone posting has made great points. Frustration with stereotypes, money, pride, bad attitudes, and intolerance occur in every aspect of life in almost every industry. However, yachting seemed different (for me.) In yachting, people from almost every corner of the world with different life stories and different perspectives are living, working, and playing together. Every moment aboard a yacht is different. Different moods, different settings, different guests, and different accomplishments. This is why I fell in love with yachting. My love wasn't from scrubbing the water line, working 14-18 hours a day, or inflating and then deflating the “toys” twelve times in an hour. (You guessed it... deck crew.) My love for yachting grew from my interactions with people and our achievements as group. Before... I thought it was from “my interactions with different people.” But yachting changed this for me. Yachting showed me my identity was not defined by how I was different; My identity was defined by how I was like someone else no matter the nationality, race, or religion. What we have in common rather than what we do not. So I will join the “Revolution” and use the cliché... Lets make love, not war.
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:52 PM
We seem to have covered most of the ground, I would like to offer 1 further point; my observation is that many American crew actually manage to "have a life" and prefer to work on home-based yachts so that they can have a normal family life. Quite rightly they do not face international competition for these jobs & so are able to earn similiar money on 80-120foot yachts as they could on larger yachts that are always on the move.
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:06 AM

Hi all.

 Very interesting reading. I am an American that has been living in Australia for the past 31 years. I have worked all the usual spots (Med, Caribbean, Hawaii, Great Barrier Reef, and many other locations around the world) and have a fair bit more then 200.000 miles under my belt. I have had an Australain master 4 ticket for 26 years now. and have been professional since 1964.

I have sailed with most nationalities and have found no bad ones. On saying that I have found (some) Americans can be a bit overbearing and the( I know my rights attitude), but I've also sailed with excellent ones.

The thing that I find with Aussie, and Kiwi sailors is they seem to be able to do many more different jobs well and not complain. I found  that out for myself down here. Before you know it your doing everything your self. I find downunder owners (on average) much tighter with their money, hence less crew. So the crew that is there must cover more areas of work on a boat. So they learn much more at a young age,and become a more desirable crew to hire. At least thats the way I see it.

Regards Conrad B.  Gold Coast, Aus.

,


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:47 PM
I was advised once by the management not to take on American crew as they were strong on litigation. They made there bed and they lie in it.
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:27 PM

 I see what you mean. Those darn "two or three" American yachties in the last decade screwed it up for the rest of us.   Obviously, some people are not aware about how difficult it actually is to file a claim and for it to go to trial in the US and perhaps in most countries.


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, March 7, 2009 11:56 PM
the person that started this topic needs to go back and look at the facts.if you say you crewed and worked as an American and now you are not ale to even get employed because of the topic you brought up[ , perhaps you need to look at you own attitude and argument then you will understand why no one wants to hire an American.the very reason is right before your eyes , .if you were polite   , focused on whatever you wanted to achieve in the industry and go about your business  queitly and in a non fiesty and friendly fashion  thei  imagine you wold have no trble at all.But no you have to form a rally to make all lther americans see you tunnel vision opinion of americans being decriminated and  expect them to back you up on your argument!.lady saty off the yachts! your atitude alone would make me escort you down the gangway and bid you farewell , try moving to idaho and strting a otato farm , perhaps a new challenge like a coulpe of kids  on the way will help you create a new goal and career.Here is how it works for everyone .You prepare for a position , you interview  , if your resume is the best and you can back up your stories then you get the job , now do the best you cn and learn what you dont already know , keep it going nd enjoy your life and travels till you have a new dream or goal you wish to achiee next.obviously your next goal is to stir trouble and cause havoc and  i think you can see where it has put you.enjoy. get some therappy to make you happy.

Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, March 8, 2009 1:58 AM

Oh please. Therapist? Honey, I AM your therapist...and apparently one of your teachers in your pathetic life. 

Truth [your therapy lesson for today]  is knowledge...it might make You sad as opposed to happy ....but hey, you or my "former" recruiters can't deny it or threaten those who speak truth to power. Unfortunately, many of those who hold more power in this industry aren't worthy to have it..by far...it's such a joke for me to even to have highlight that point.  

Speaking truth to power and facing retaliation for it is not the same as being "mean" and "obnoxious" or "anti international".  


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:47 PM
Most of these posts have some really good points.  I will say I am an American captain that has been in this industry for about 7 years.  I understand that Americans have gotten a bad rap as wanting to go to "court" over ridiculous things.  Unfortunately a few bad apples can spoil the bunch, and I would say this is what has happen here.  I have worked with all nationalities in this business, and I have never had a "Lazy American" on board.  I have had some that could not do the job they were hired for, but I have had other nationalities that were the same.  That is always going to be the case, American or any other, there will be good and bad crew. 

The only thing I have ever had a problem with is a job that has a description that I am very qualified for, but when I talked to the Crew Agency or Broker, I was told, "Oh, you are American, I can't even give them your CV."  That is a very upsetting thing to hear when you know you may be one of the more qualified people for the position, especially when the owner or manager will never have the opportunity to see your CV.

Debbie
Posted: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:35 PM

Cpt. I'm glad you brought up some points as some of us have discussed before. I wish more of you guys would do the same.

 

However,  speaking out in the industry about actual issues that have unfairly affected other yachties [in a multitude of ways] in this biz does not make one a “bad apple”. The more people like myself speak out whether it’s in a forum like this or else where, the more we can have a healthier industry. This is not just your industry, it is all of ours if we choose to be apart of it, fairly and morally.

This industry has an epidemic of “bad apples“, and among those “bad apples” are people who retaliate against those who call them on their own misgivings and acts against policy and rules. And if you’re calling me a “bad apple“, it’s either because you’re someone I took issues with or you’re unfortunately naïve and overzealous about an industry where many people are bent against you simply because of where you’re from while they many snivelingly smile to your face. This junk has been going on well before I ever existed in the biz, my friend. 


Debbie
Posted: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:47 PM
William Widman wrote:

I am a very capable, hard-working, hands-on, honest captain. I love meeting people from different countries and cultures and consider myself a "citizen of the world". I truly have nothing against SA's, Aussies, Kiwis, Brit's, ect. However, I have to say that as an American, especially when I'm in Ft. Lauderdale, it starts to get on my nerves constantly hearing "hey might" (mate). I think to myself, where are all the Americans in this industry? I'm in my own country working in an industry flooded by foreigners, who by-and-large think of me as an American as a second-class citizen within the yachting community. I can't answer the question about who has the better work ethic, Americans or foreigners. But I can speak about myself, I truly am a dedicated and hard-working American. In fact, I've even had crew tell me that have worked with me that I'm probably one of the hardest working captain's in the industry. I'm not infering that I'm the only hardworking captain in the industry, there are many others as well. But we're a relatively small group compared to the many "white shirt" ego-driven captains.


Thank YOU!
Chef Chaz
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:49 PM
Joined: 23/08/2008
Posts: 1


I feel it boils down to the person themself, not where they come from.

We can go over this from allot of differnt angles but in reality it is about who you are and what you are willing to do to contribute, and break these stereotypes people may have about us, whether Phillipino in America or American in Dubai, it is all about how we can adapt and show what we are about. 

 There will be a sharper curve for some people in the world but this does not mean a Brit would not get along with working in France for example or complain how the french do not do things like they do in Brittan, or an American who argues that potentially that same point but as the way things are done back home.  The point is we all have to adapt, that is what this World and industry is about. 

Some people are set in their ways, find boats where they people from home that share the same attitude but in the end how much are we doing as a whole to conform  and make things happen. 

Now, This could could be a thread about someone from another country and it is easy to find the pros and cons of how they interact and work.  Many cultural differences,what we have to do as embrace what we have, respect the laws and rules of that land so to speak and if, in the end, you are not happy, leave.  I suggest seek to understand before you seek to be understood.

The Yachting industry has allot of great people and we as humans, co workers, comrades, have to look beyond nationality and find ways to break these steerotypes but first it starts with us, whether American or South African.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:19 PM
Debbie,
          here is an idea , since yachting doesn't seem to go your way too we , get pregnant .have some kids , that will keep you very busy for at least 24 years , then you can fill the boredom in your life with a challenge you cannot cancel.
if that's not enough move to Toledo Ohio or Idaho and start a potato farm , this way you are growing food , calling your own shots and never have to deal with foreign crew member you so much loathe.you will be dealing with your own seed and potatoes , if that's not enough  i believe lake Michigan is west of you and not too much a hike , lots of yachts there , best part not many foreign yachties on em just Americans.you can work there and never have to deal with competition , if you do they will be american. i wonder if you will start a new argument about being a woman next or something in those lines , .. i think your best bet would be having kids and a spud farm.

Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:08 AM
Your correct Chef Chaz.  Plenty of great people, life is beautiful and as an American I dont feel the cards are stacked against me.  One thing I dont like is all the Red flag tax haven yachts that require British tickets.  Its the life, we know this  so simply be wise and go with British tickets. They are not hard to get. No good pissing and moaning, just digg in and get on with it.  Plenty of other nationalities face the same road block.  Americans should have no special entitlement.
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:16 PM

this guy should go jump off a cliff he is so frustrated.

I am american and operate a yacht dedicated company in France, and have a few american skippers , stewardesses among my clientele.

Many of the superlargest yachts have a commanding Ofiicer who is American.

Those who are hired to my knowledge have some of the finest education in maritime industry like massmaritime or ex navy officers.There are also a legion of american skippers and stewardesses operating on many vessels in Florida , Great Lakes and anywhere with an ocean within the Continental USA.and by thousands!

Go and get yourself a life!


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:34 AM

DONT TELL ME THAT THE INDUSTRY HAS "SOME" EGO DRIVEN CAPTAINS-CREW REALLY.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, March 16, 2009 8:45 AM

Yes, how true.  Captains continuously introduce themselves not by the yachts name, but by how big their, err umm, well you know....I'm a 50meter captain !
   I sit down to lunch with these jokers and the conversation is either about how much money they are spending or how to find  fashion model stewardess's to burnish their stud image.  All in all its a funny world....so many captains morph into surrogate owners.


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, March 16, 2009 2:57 PM
typical seppos whining again. this industry is too hard a work for you. aussies dig deep and power through any situation where your fellow american deck hand will be running off to find his nearest lawyer to sue for being over worked or some wee legal matter, then run down the local bar and tell everyone that he is the captain and so on.............its REALLY obvious why why there is no americans, try giving them some day work they will be gone in days, promise the world and will either be late to work or just dont show..... toughen up princess's
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, March 16, 2009 5:08 PM

It seems you're an angry Aussie

It's a shame there are people out there that give Americans such a bad wrap. We're not all crazy, lazy, sue-happy fools. But, one bad apple spoils the bunch as they say and unfortunately we can't control what our peers have to say.


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:44 PM

Well Aussie, nothing against you guys, great county and I hire you all the time.   I'm American and I'm  confident that I can out compete you at anything and make twice your salary.   Wanna make a bet ?


Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:41 AM
Bring it on, or do we have do sign legal litigation first
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:17 PM
Anonymous wrote:

It seems you're an angry Aussie

It's a shame there are people out there that give Americans such a bad wrap. We're not all crazy, lazy, sue-happy fools. But, one bad apple spoils the bunch as they say and unfortunately we can't control what our peers have to say.

 

Are you referring to the person who started this thread?


notaputtycat
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:22 PM

[This post has been removed by the forum moderator]


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2009 3:50 PM
Mmm.  Interesting points by some.  Junior is correct - at least I believe - but, predictably, I'll most probably get shot down automatically.  Go for it....I won't come back to see the replies.......I have said my bit.  None of it is an attack on Americans, so I'm not expecting a response - but given that this is predominantly an American site.....and certain people are known for being slightly over zealous and jumping the gun (yawn)......

I live in Nice and work on yachts - have done for 11 yrs - as interior crew.  I love it.  Best industry in the world for me.  I like most Americans I meet.  JUST like I like most other nationalites that I meet.  Don't read between the lines.....there is nothing to be read!  Every nationality has good and bad points.  Actually, there is ONE nationality that irritates me, but I am not going to be racist and publicise that.  That just shows lack of judgement and poor education.  It's actually their accent that drives me up the wall.  I can't help it.  I have tried.  Although they do have a proven reputation for screwing people over.  Anyway, I am digressing........

As a Brit (with good teeth LOL), I don't want to live or be on a boat in the States/Pacific/Aus.  I want to be 2 hours flight from my family.  I have done the travelling bit on yachts....now I want to be settled and have a base with my partner.  And I am fortunate to be on the best yacht of my career so far and very happy.  I'm staying put.

I am extremely fortunate in my chosen profession to be from the UK as we have Europe on our doorstep and, being from an island nation, travelling is in my blood.

I have worked with good and bad of most nationalities.  The French have a reputation (quite rightly deserved) of being a lazy lot when it comes to the working hours and always question why they have to do things asked of them.....hence they are not hired in France unless it is a French Owner with a French Captain.  But they accept it.  I had one temporary French deck hand who asked the Captain why he had to carry the Guests bags for them.  In front of the Guests.  He was an emergency recruitment on an 80m boat that had a last minute Arab charter....and we all know when they like to eat their dinner and go out.  Hence the emergency recruitment.

The French have yachts right on their doorstep, but I have NEVER had a French candidate for a job come to any boat I have been on or come by to enquire about day work.  Bizarre.....and the food here is not all it's cracked up to be.  That idea about French food being the best is total rubbish.  It is on a par with the rest of the civilised world.  Our American Chef, when he chooses to break into a sweat, could cook the pants off any Frenchie that walked by.  And before the expected waffle.....I live in France, am fluent in French (and Spanish and German) and so have French friends.  They all agree to the above.....it is due to the French work ethic and their attitude that they are better than all other nations.  And the French laugh at their stereo-type!!  They positively embrace it - not hide it and pretend it doesn't exist.  That attitude is seriously endearing.  It makes me love them.  They are difficult buggers and they are happy to agree with that and will quite happily continue to be difficult, thank you very much.  Fantastic!!!

Americans - the ones that have a passport- don't appear to be here AT ALL in France or Palma.  Bar the Chef.  There are NONE in the restaurants and bars.  None asking for day work.  No CVs coming in for an interior position I need to fill.  None being given to my crew agent friends.  None at the Antibes Boat Show currently going on.  And most likely there will be none at the Genoa Boat Show in May.

No-one is offended, right?  Please don't be.  I'm reading this over to make sure I am not offensive as some of you seem to be easily offended.  Seriously, it's not meant to be - and it isn't. 
Moving on........*tip toes away*

Why is that?  Maybe they all want to work on US based yachts?  If that is the case...then that just isn't going to work.  Not enough boats to go round.  And when all the Brit/Aus/Kiwi/SA have got the jobs on the Med boats (where some of you guys aren't trying).....the rest of them have to go to the States to look for more boats as collectively they are a huge amount of crew.  And they are capable crew (mostly) who are doing this as a career - not as a year out.  They also go to the Pacific etc......

One thing to remember - people and their countries have an image.  They do.  Deal with it.  If we didn't have an image we would all be the same.  Bo-oring.

It is human nature to hire people we feel we will get on well with. We surround ourselves with people of a similar nature and disposition.  Brits tend (not all) to be polite and reserved and know how to speak with Owners and Guests.  They know their place in the food chain.  They speak languages.  Aussies and Kiwis, being of UK descent (not all), tend to follow suit.  Americans - as an image (not all) - do not have that.  The Americans that I am friends with know this.  But some of the posts on here seem to just be learning about this image - you can't be serious - and the defiance and anger that comes across CONFIRMS IT.  Remember that often it is the Owner - often American - who does not want American crew.  Nothing I can do about that.  It's their boat.  They can surround themselves with midget penguins for all I care.

Or perhaps it is because Americans are generally the most successful in most global industries and it just annoys the small minded ones that you simply are not in this one.  I can understand that. 

Just to make sure - NONE OF THE ABOVE IS MEANT TO BE OFFENSIVE.  It truly isn't.  It's just the way it is.  *peeks between fingers to check expressions*

Now, the last time I checked, boats could move from country to country.  Americans - not all, don't panic - haven't seemed to grasp this and want to stay in Fort Liquordale, maybe pop up to Boston, maybe pop down to the Caribbean for 4 months.  We all travel at some point in our lives - we are European and it is a big world out there wating to be discovered.  We can't help ourselves.  Americans...not so much.  You have an incredible continent that has all the travel opportunities you could wish for.  You're very lucky to have that.  It's a wonderful land.  Britain is small and not known for its great weather .  So we go for a look around.  Aussies even have a word in the dictionary for this.  It's called 'walkabout'.

Americans are free to work on most if not any yacht.....but other nationalities cannot work on the US flagged vessels. 
Have you not seen the advertisements that want US applicants only?  Am I seeing things?  It's not ALL about Americans.  Other nationalities just have better things to complain about.  Like the constant train strikes in France.  Or the fact that the SA STCW 95 is half the price there than it is in Antibes.  We argue about real stuff that physically happens, not that we presume to be happening.  You don't want a Brit on your boat?  No problem.  Another one will.....not everyone is suited to work together.

It is not the '2 or 3' yachties who have sued who have created this image - it is America as a whole.  Ten years ago we didn't have adverts for claiming if you fell at work.....you guys did.  Now we have them too.  It sucks.  If you fall at work, it's your own fault.  Get over it. 
It is ironic that the Americans coined the phrase 'shit happens', as a country image, you don't (not all!) come across as being so laissez-faire.....

And guess what?  The non-Americans don't get online and start a forum to bitch about it.  They get on with it.

If an American says once more that 'everyone wants to go to the States'.  Sorry to burst your bubble, but we also travel to the rest of the world.  The US is on the same list of things to see as Australia is.

Just stating a fact.  Don't be offended....*avoids paper dart*

So, for the love of God, guys.  Give it up!  Get your butts over here and get that job.  I would welcome a different accent to the usual ones!!!

If your CV is up to par, your attitude is great and you can actually do the job well that you are applying for......you will get the job.  The complainers are the one making an issue of it.....there's plenty of Owners and Captains who don't want Aussies.  I don't see them getting all high and mighty.  It is in Americans' blood to speak out if they feel hard done by.  But that just wastes time.  The rest of us accept the differences and find another job. 

Given that Americans are not the majority of crew working on yachts, there are a lot of complainers out there (and others that are not).  Maybe that is where the stereo-type is coming from?  A REAL shame for all the great, hard working Americans that are on yachts/looking for work.  They have their fellow countrymen to blame.  I know 'free speech' and all that is great.....but some of the posts on this site are a little extreme.....we also have free speech.  We just know when it is inappropriate.........

So get over here and prove the small-minded people that Americans are not like their stereo-type.  I know it's nonsense.  If we all lived by stereo-types, I would have shocking teeth. 

If anybody has managed to be offended by any of the above, you should consider politics.  You are living up to your stereo-type.

If you really want a 'discriminating' reason as to why Americans are not getting hired and believe fully that it is something to do with stereo-types, then Debbie and her trolling posts are a very good place to start.  *penny drops*



JT
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2009 4:03 PM
Joined: 25/02/2009
Posts: 4


*One Brit claps*

*Two Brits clap*

*All Brits give standing ovation*

*Aussies clap*

*Aussies give standing ovation*

*Kiwis follow*

*Americans sit scratching their heads and looking at one another*

Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2009 4:56 PM
http://yachtforce.com/index.php?action=search&order_by=&ord=&2=&6%5B%5D=128%2C189%2C190&15%5B%5D=all&5=&14=22&92=&search=Fin

'Stewardess needed for 90m.  Must have US Citizenship.'

Any complaints from the non-Americans?  That would be a resounding 'no'.

I rest my case.

Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2009 10:27 PM

It is about time that foreign crew and day workers realized they are breaking the law when they arrive in the USA looking for work.

Foreigners walking the docks, scouring the shipyards for work are directly competing with Americans.

Rising unemployment and an obvious bias against American crew is stirring the pot, it would not surprise me if someday it becomes impossible for foreigners to come and find work in America.

I for one think it´s unfair that Americans are discriminated against.

What is the fuss all about?????

Are Americans evil or given higher authority to challenge an employer???


Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 4:50 AM

I'm getting really sick of this American/non American crap in this forum...does this really reflect the industry views or are we getting a few bad apples/pot stirrers making it sound like this industry is backwards and narrow minded?

Everyone knows Debbie is on a crusade against everything non American...okay, she's crazy, but what about the rest of you? Do the majority of crew dislike Americans and stereotype by nationality like the long post yesterday...are most americans this conservative and protectionist?

I sincerely hope not. Grow up everyone. This is a global industry we're in. Judge by the person not the nationality. Get a job whenever and wherever in the world you can and be thankful that you're in such a cool profession.

We can't do much about the insurance problem that Americans face, but we can at least stick together and be intelligent, open-minded individuals.

And by the way, it is definitely not illegal for non Americans to look for work while in the US. Ask any US immigration lawyer or knowledgeable crew agent in the US.


Harland
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:15 AM
Joined: 25/03/2009
Posts: 15


Hey, anonymous-good looking out!  I posted a blog about the same thing a couple of weeks ago. However I am not afraid to speak my mind, and usually do. And I will again here. I read some comments following your post: Bad work ethic, not wanting to travel, demanding..what a crock of shit! I was dayworking on M/V "Kathline" at Rybovich a couple of weeks ago. The only yank was the Bosun. Our project was to prep the deck chairs for varnish. I was dayworking with 3 other S.Africans, and worked circles around them! One of them kept smelling up my ride as I drove them to the job in the morning, cause he was allways "on the piss" as they say-hung over, lazy. Now I started working in this industry with a Captain from S.A, and he was hardcore! I'm not dissing any S.A people as they served with me in the same Airborne Brigade in the IDF. I'm just saying, that dude, who said this and that about Yanks, should really pull his head out of his bilge and take a closer look.

Next: I wrote about agencies like "Crew4Crew", and "LYG". The first, allways has shit posted, "No Americans". So I called them up, (they have an office off of Cordova, behind the Winn Dixie), and asked them, "What's with all the No Americans" They told me that their web site is foreign based, and sorry, that's the way it is. If you ask me, a business that operates in the US but never hires Americans, should be sent packing! LYG, -had a problem with my profile pic, cause even though I dont have a shirt on, all you see is is the top of my shoulders and "mug". So they wouldn't even pass my resume to an American owner who had a new sailboat, and didn't care what the crew looked like (he had tats all over, and is a former US Navy/Coastee officer) as long as they were on deck on time, and ready to sail. Not to mention, he was offering $3500.00 a month, just as a deckhand! You never hear that being offered as salary for a deckhand on a sailing vessel. So even though the owner requested an American, and even as a veteran of the US Navy as well, I was passed over due to a profile pic. I used that same pic to get on the first 4 out of 5 yacht I crewed on-no problem. You can't even judge how someone's going to perform from a picture. I usually say, "[profanity removed], or are they looking for a hardcore deckie who falls out on deck on time, has yet to get sea sick, military experience, works out as much as possible, and one hell of a detailer" And then I laugh. [profanity removed]. My resume was never passed on, and I could've used that cash for my new business (i can run it from the internet) but I use 3 other businesses, so when I get denied due to my C/V pic, we all suffer. I know I'm ranting, but I don't care. As for some of these foreign yachtees, alot just think, I heard it from their mouths, such things as "Screw paying them, we'll be gone in a few days", or "Let's take this or that, cause we'll be shoving off soon." Great people to have running around down here, when there's enough crime and BS from US citizens.

As for the Jones Act-thank god again! I was hired aboard M/V "Summerwind" ( I didn't know the reputation it had, or I would never had signed on). This young kid got hired on as the Mate, and one day, when raising the tender on the Portside davit, the cable was fraying (I had the bowline), and I kept saying to the Captain and the Engineer "That cable is going to go!) They both told me to "Shut the hell up, and handle the bowline!" One thing they teach you in the Navy,  are signs of damaged cables that might snap. The can cut a person in half. So they kept yelling at each other, and for some reason decided to bring the tender up, and place it "stern towards the bow." So the Mate, who was handling the other line was more forward with the Captain and the Engineer, when SNAP! The cable parted, and the tender, suspended 3 feet in the air came down and shaved alot of meat of the Mate's shin. The Captain and the Engineer just stood there like a bunch of dip-shits, while I tore of my shirt as a "911" compress and (you can take the soldier out of the army, but can't take the army out of the soldier),-I allways wear a web belt-great tournequit if you need one, but anyway, I pull my belt off to secure the compress, and the Engineer says" He don't need a tourniquit!" And I say, it's not a tourniquet you dumb-ass. So the Captain goes to the wheel house, and brings out these Loyd of London papers, and has ME DRIVE HIM TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM.  Too bad it happened on the kid's birthday!  Then a couple of weeks later, the Mate and I are waxing the hull on a floater, and I ended up getting a nice zap somehow. At first I felt fine, did the "macho" thing. But by lunch, I was having chest pains, and someone I know who's worked in ER's and other hospitals said-"Get checked out, you might have an arythmia.(dont know if I spelled it right-dont care). I didn't know the Hospital was going to keep me over night, hooked up like a christmas tree with tons of wires, and what-not. So they release me from the Hospital, and I'm on my way back to the yacht thinking, "good thing they had insurance". I will say, that when I returned to the yacht, I resigned my position, as the Captain ( a little dude with the last name of "Hussien") lol, never even took the time to come and visit the Mate or me in the Hospital, or even called to see how he or I was. When I got hit with some shrap from an IED back in 94, all my CO's and and theri staff flew with me and the other injured to the hospital. That's a leader. So I decided, after 1) having returned the Mate to the Yacht after he got stitched up, the Captain's chasing the stewardess, trying to play grab-ass, and having a cold frosy beer in his hand. That, in my opinion is NOT a leader, and seeing how If elt my life was worth more than 2500 a month, I said "See Ya". So a month late i get this 11,000.00 bill from the hospital, and I'm like, this is wrong. I still had the loyds of London papers, and went to the hospital to see what the deal was, and this schmuch yacht owner, had the crew on his AUTO INSURANCE, so the ding bats at the hospital entered it as an auto accident. Then the asshole owner decided he's going to play "I don't know who this is". So I had to play dirty, ratted them out to the Coastees for the "contraband" that's known to be on board, chase down the underwriters, work with the hospital. I got phone calls from the brokers, and one of them even went down to St. Barts to verify the story. It took 6 months and alot of head ache, but if it wasn't for the Jones Act, I probably would've gotten the prop shaft up the dunnage pipe, if you know what I mean. Arrr, beware the M/V "Summerwind". The bummer of it was I have allway been looking for a yacht where the Captain or Owner wanted to circumanvigate the globe on it's own bottom, and the owner was big time into diving.

Last and finally, I remember the 1st M/V I crewed on, M/V "Avanti" My big concern was that i wouldn't get hired, cause I have tattoes from my military time on my arms and back. But he liked my attitude, and allways had that yacht SPARKLING! The big problem (and this goes back to the appearance/pic issue) was that the stewardess, despite the proffessional appearance, would allways make as taught in the STCW sexually harrassing remarks. Not even jokes. Just stupid, un professional comments. So even though she had "The yachtee look" she sucked! Anytime we'd take off, guess who was "seasick", and had to lay up on the flybridge in her bra to get a tan. So what difference does a C/V picture make?

I guess that I feel we are being outsourced, and screwed over. There need's to be some kind of legislation that:

1) If there is a crew agency operating in the US-US citizens first. I went to the UK (it sucked) but because I had an open ticket for a month, and a work visa waiting for me in Belgium, they decided I was lying to get on their Socialized Medicine, and was kicked out. I say do the same to these who stay at the hostels, take up all the day work, and keep us locked out. I am not a zenophobe, but Aussies, S.Africans, they are the same as we are. The only super Aussie I know of is "Mad Max". I am not impressed by any of these foreigners who come here, and take our jobs. So overall, we need to start there. I gotta laugh. Back in '03 I was standing in front of "Floyd's", trying to blend in to get some work. [profanity removed] comes over saying: "You can't stand here, cause you're not staying here." I'm a patriot. My response, while un proffessional, was "[profanity removed]-this is my country, and I'll stand here and get work just like the rest. If there's a problem with me standing here, I'll just call the INS, ICE, and the DHS, and see what they have to say about your operations here. Another thing that pisses me off is when these B1/B2 jerks go into "Smallwoods", yank out my or another Yank's C/V and stick theirs in your place. I actuall went to the crew house of one chick from Australia, because she yanked mine out, and did what was previously mentioned. I must admit, I like a woman with nerve. So I tossed her resumes over the gate to the crew house. And then it happened with some [profanity removed] did the same thing.

IT'S TIME TO TAKE AMERICAN YACHTING BACK TO AMERICA. And if these US yacht owners want to go to a place where they resent Americans, why go there in the first place. Retards.

And for the ones who say, stop complaining, and find another job, maybe i'll come on over to Australia, and take your family's job. Oh right, you get kicked out if you're caught looking for work over there, the U.K, Eurostan, New Zealand, Antiqua, etc., etc.

If any of you have a problem with what I posted, "Kiss my ass!"


Debbie
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:34 AM
Anonymous wrote:

I'm getting really sick of this American/non American crap in this forum...does this really reflect the industry views or are we getting a few bad apples/pot stirrers making it sound like this industry is backwards and narrow minded?

Everyone knows Debbie is on a crusade against everything non American...okay, she's crazy, but what about the rest of you? Do the majority of crew dislike Americans and stereotype by nationality like the long post yesterday...are most americans this conservative and protectionist?

I sincerely hope not. Grow up everyone. This is a global industry we're in. Judge by the person not the nationality. Get a job whenever and wherever in the world you can and be thankful that you're in such a cool profession.

We can't do much about the insurance problem that Americans face, but we can at least stick together and be intelligent, open-minded individuals.

And by the way, it is definitely not illegal for non Americans to look for work while in the US. Ask any US immigration lawyer or knowledgeable crew agent in the US.

 

Oh you [crazy] loser, shush up. If you don't have anything intelligent to spew, quit logging on and stalking me online.  If you have something intelligent to say or to be concerned about, I'm willing to read your post and respond nicely. 

And you are wrong [yet again] about those who are on a tourist visa looking/obtaining work in this country.  It's against the law in Europe too...as well as in the States.   Your so called immigration attorney is wrong.  Do some research on the Homeland Security site or talk to an actual ICE agent.


Debbie
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:43 AM

Over zealous? Good. Fine by me. I hope more Americans will do the same! In this tacky, trumped up industry, more Americans need to be zealous to get what is fair and fight unfair discrimination in an industry promulgated by Americans.

More Americans would help establish more diversity and [hello] more persona.  I mean, Jesus, something this drabby industry desperately needs.

  Beats being overly reserved, negative, pastey, with no personality to boot. What American hasn't been creeped out by so many stuffy and boring English internationals any how?  Yawn and .. ew.

 

 


Debbie
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:51 AM

Okay, that was mean...not all English internationals lack interesting personality attributes...but I think more of you need to pop in a Chappelle dvd every once and a while.  Wouldn't hurt.

And try to refrain from watching too many Friends and The OC reruns too. 


Debbie
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 6:09 AM

Harland,

 

Damn boy, I thought I wrote manifestos on here...whew!  I actually read everything you wrote, and you seem pretty frustrated.  Join the club.  If you are sincere about hard work and a good attitude all in all, I wish you the very best in this industry.

I also hope you will keep your cool when you realize that ICE could give a rat's 'auss'.  There are economical and political implications for ICE and Homeland Security to look the other way. There's the notion that IF ICE/INS actually did their job and rounded up illegal aliens in this industry and others...industries would collapse.  I don't really buy it, but that's what a lot of people [and politicians/business people] already assume will happen.  Why do you think South Florida is inhabited with neighborhoods upon neighborhoods of latino illegal aliens?  THEY are pretty much everywhere in South Florida.  Many don't even speak English as you may already know.   Some people like the idea of English internationals thriving in this industry and inhabiting parts of Florida and CA simply because they want more whites rather than "coloured" illegal aliens. 

 

 


Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 8:55 AM
there is alot of un cultivvated farm land in the north west country , you can get a 5 acres piece of land for a reasonable amount , potatoes are easy to grow , im sure your neighbour has manure from his cows and oh you can alo use manure thats been permented as fuel to cook and heat your crib , yachting seems rather tough for you whinning sots , obviously you are in it for the wrong reasons , lured by the notion of making lots of money and living like queens  , please  i will sugeest once again that you ladies get bangged up and have some babies , ...that ought to kep your lousy feeble and discriminative brains with a long enough challenge in life.forget yachts think about kids and potatoes..yeah ,can you imagine how busy you will be?? no time to worry about the ausssies or brits or french ..do you really think if all foreigners left the yachts in the hands f merican crew they would flourish??please i bet you the owners and brokers will move their yachts out and ship them overseas where they can find crew that know what they are doing on board without loosing focus or having their hands held by a lawyer!there are lots of other options out there if you cant take the heat on yachting..i think babies is your best shot ladies..its your best challenge and there is no going around it..theres good advise..now get off the yachts and move to a lesser challenging field , easy is all you know and noone blames you...boo hoo!

Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 10:34 AM
Astoundingly, or perhaps not, Debbie and another American have missed the point totally.

They have ignored the obvious fact that EVERY nationality is discriminated against and HAVE taken offence at the longest post I have ever seen!  How predictable.  Read the post again guys - it isn't offensive and if you read some of it, you will see that the poster is on YOUR side and AGREES that discrimination is wrong.

A non-American agrees with you and you take offence with that?  Beyond weird.

With attitudes like that, it is no wonder you are struggling.  Sheesh!

Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 10:38 AM
DEBBIE: Why do you think South Florida is inhabited with neighborhoods upon neighborhoods of latino illegal aliens?  THEY are pretty much everywhere in South Florida.  Many don't even speak English as you may already know.   Some people like the idea of English internationals thriving in this industry and inhabiting parts of Florida and CA simply because they want more whites rather than "coloured" illegal aliens. 

Then why do you keep having a go at the capable crew that are offered these jobs by your own people.  Sort out your country first.

This argument is ridiculous.


Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2009 10:47 AM


Over zealous? Good. Fine by me.  - not really, that is why you are struggling to get employment. I hope more Americans will do the same! Ok, then you will all struggle.  In this tacky, trumped up industry - just in it for the money then, Debbie? , more Americans need to be zealous to get what is fair and fight unfair discrimination in an industry promulgated by Americans.  Really?  All boats are built by America, owned by Americans and every port in the world is in America?  News to me.  Wonder why so many Americans go to the Med then......

More Americans would help establish more diversity and [hello] more persona.  I mean, Jesus, something this drabby industry desperately needs.  Your opinion.  Not that of the Owners.  Including American Owners.  Proof shows they want the opposite of loud and 'in your face/zealous' Americans.

  Beats being overly reserved, negative, pastey, with no personality to boot. What American hasn't been creeped out by so many stuffy and boring English internationals any how?  Yawn and .. ew.  And now you just lose your argument completely with your language.  Debate the issue, don't diss and be racist.  The above massive post agreed with your point and you didn't want the support. 


Oh wow, there is a post for a job for US Citizen only.  And guess what?  None of you picked up on it and thought for a second that it DOES happen to everybody.  You're so wrapped up in your own little American bubbles.  No surprise there.



You are not a true representation of an American, just living up to the stereo-type.  Pull your head in and stop embarrassing yourself and fellow Yanks.  They must be cringing seeing this stuff.

 

 




 
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