|
|
Joined: 01/11/2011
Posts: 4
|
Hi Everyone,
I am the Mate on 95ft MY and the Captain left a few weeks
ago, now the owner wants to be the captain in charge while he is on board, I
must add that he has helmed most of the times aswell in the past while he was
on board…
The owner has some kind of a Austrian River license for one
of the rivers in Austria, it is obviously ok for his insurance.
The boat is UK registered and I hold a RYA/MCA Yachtmaster ticket, now my question:
If something seriously happens while he is helming and it
goes to court, is there a possibility that I lose my license, coz I have a UK
license and the boat UK registered and he just has this Austrian river
license??
Thank you in advance!
|
|
|
|
You better check on the Austrian river licence, because a lincence is usually issued to prove you are capable to drive a vessel in the area specified.
It is unlikely that a river licence can be used on the ocean.
Also a rule of thumb is that the highest competant licence holder on the vessel is the one most liable.
As far as signing over the vessel to the owner when he is at the helm, i am not sure if that can be done, but I think you are the one taking the liability right now. As fas as the insurance he may not even be insured for himself at the helm, but relied on the old captain.
Be careful...
|
|
Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 49
|
Thanks for your question. Such a river ‘licence’ will have almost no legal or practical value other than on inland waterways. The European inland ‘rules of the road’ are not the same as those used in tidal waters or at sea. Every moment while the owner is acting as master, his vessel is almost certainly ‘off-cover’. In other words, if he parks it on the rocks – or even if it happens to catch fire – the insurer won’t have to pay him anything. As far as where you stand with the MCA, or any port state, it will be up to you to prove that you had been relieved of your duty as master each time the owner ‘wanted a go’. The owner would never admit to this in case his insurer refused to pay out, so you’d be in serious trouble. Either you’re employed as master, or you’re not. Benjamin Maltby, matrixLloyd™.
|
|
Joined: 01/11/2011
Posts: 4
|
Thank you Ben,
does that mean even though I am just employed as a Mate, I would be reliable, because I hold a proper licence and he does not. (Obviously we are not cruising on any austrian rivers.)
Is it always the person with the highest ticket responsible, even though the owner would sign the logbook as captain in charge.
Thank you again, for your help!
I might have to consider my position on board and have to have a word with owner...
|
|
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1011
|
If your contract has you as "Mate" and the owner is at the helm, you don't have much to worry about. As long as you do what you can and tell them the situation in the post accident deposition, you'll be good. I would suggest that you get in writing from the boss though that when he is onboard, he is assuming the role of "Master". With that, you'll be in the clear. The Master's position at its base level is one that insulates the owner from liability. If the owner decides to strip himself of that insulation, then under Respondeate Superior, they assume all liability personally. You don't have much to worry about yourself.
|
|
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 334
|
"
If something seriously happens while he is helming and it
goes to court, is there a possibility that I lose my license ...?"
Is the boat over 200 tons? Does it operate privately or commercially? Does it have a manning certificate? Where are you? Are you operating internationally?
Since the answers so far are all over the place and no one has even asked how the boat is operated and where, don't you think that your best answer might come after providing your flag state maritime administration with the information they need to determine the boat's status?
|
|
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1029
|
I assume that you are on a private owner operated yacht. These are the finest jobs in yachting. If I were you I would stop blowing gas and concentrate on doing your job. Your job when working for an owner operator is to MAKE IT HAPPEN. Regarding licensing, you will be doing your job correctly by discreetly collecting the relevant documents from the MCA so that your owner can easily upgrade his Inland operator ticket. I have done this for several owners. . Its easy...IT IS YOUR JOB....and it makes owner operated yachts possible. Remember one day you may become an owner operator and the last thing you will want is some pimple faced Yachtmaster in your face telling you who the boss is. .
|
|
Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 4
|
do not leave anything to chance e mail the mca immediately the river licence is not worth the paper the owner can not assume the rank of master without the relevant ticket regardless of any signed disclaimer relieving you of responsibility as you have the relevant qualification the onus is on you to see the vessel in operated within the law [as part of your ticket includes law ]you should be aware of this the insurace co involved will most certainly void any claim
|
|
|
|
this guy +matrix lloyd +anonymous are the only ones talking sense please do not listen to the idiot junior r adcock mca chief eng unlimited
|
|
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1029
|
Sounds like youre unemployed. Something for crew to remember is that we all work in the Marine Industry. Your job as a crew is to stimulate the marine industry by finding solutions to every challenge you face. The incorrectly licensed Owner operator is a typical challenge . Address it. Standing around with your goofy tickets in hand complaining ensures unemployment and harms the marine industry by driving valuable owner operators out of the market. ..
|
|
Joined: 14/10/2008
Posts: 34
|
I really wish Dockwalk would ban anyone posting anonymously at this forum. Anyway, they promptly loose any credibility.
I just love Junior's replies. One day we should meet up over a beer.
How right you are. Going to sea is always somewhat risky, you should be experienced enough to know, that the most important is that the boss has fun! Whatever that takes! It is your job to make sure that all the safety & security issues work around this one priority. If you look at it this way, and start organising yourself and the boat around the boss, not around your self, stop listening to all the idiots in the bar, AND with sufficient experience, you will see that it all goes OK.
Happy sailing, all!
|
|
Joined: 01/11/2011
Posts: 4
|
Well, thank you everyone for replying so far.
Obviously it is sometimes hard to get a proper answer, no offence but I did not ask for any opinions etc. about how I should do my job etc. I think I do a pretty good job...
I just wanted to know the legal aspect of it, so I know what to do and what is best for the owner, and I think that is a legitimate question!
So I will try it again those are the facts:
- 95ft MY less than 200tons
- british registered
- privately used and operated worldwide
- owner will act as captain, helming etc. (no other captain on board)
- I am employed as Mate and hold a Yachtmaster Ticket (comm. end.)
- Owner only holds a local Austrian River licence
Will I be held liable if something happens, because I am the only one on board who holds a RYA/MCA Ticket and the boat is british registered or is this irrelevant, because I am not acting as captain?
Thank you again!
|
|
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 334
|
What part of asking your flag state maritime administration don't you get? If you want to "do your job" you will learn where to find information and from whom to take legal advice. Are you afraid to go to the MCA for advice?
Maybe people are telling you how to do your job because it has become obvious you don't know how. If you are not up to it, quit. There are many others who are and will gladly take your place and provide the owner with the yachting experience he thinks he is paying for and protect his assets at the same time.
|
|
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1029
|
I no nothing of your liability. I do know that if your owner is the captain He must have the relevant document. On a private yacht as soon as I clear into port the port authorities ask for my documents. Your owner will be stopped in his tracks at the first port and will be drinking beer at the waterfront pub until he hires a captain. . It is inappropriate for him to use your qualifications on his behalf. I have no idea what an Austrian Inland operators tickets is nor how it is upgraded. In the past I have arranged for owners to secure a yacht masters ticket in the comfort of their own yacht. . You simply call a yachtmaster school, hire an instructor to come to the yacht for a weekend to prep your owner for the exam, then the instructor brings onboard the examiner to administer the test and presto , problem solved. I doubt if things have changed over the years...investigate, then forever solve this problem for your owner..
|
|
Joined: 01/11/2011
Posts: 4
|
Thank you again everyone!
I'll send an email to the MCA just to doublecheck.
Thank you Junior, I will take your advise and will get an examiner on board, so the owner will get his proper licence and then the problem is out of the way...
Topic closed!
|
|
Joined: 04/10/2008
Posts: 5
|
[Comment removed by moderator for violating forum guidelines]
|
|
|
|