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What would it be worth, hypothetically...?
Henning
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 5:45 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049



Lets say I have 2 mates berths for a delivery of a '07 61' Viking/Princess SC from Glen Cove LI to most likely Palm Beach. We run 27-30 or we run 16. Anything slower than 16 and we're parked for better weather at the next port. You'll stand your watches, you will do engineering duties under supervision as well as deck and interior maintenance and you will learn to dock the boat under supervision, you will be hands on. I will document your time and training onboard.

 Male or female doesn't matter at this point, but whichever it will be both as it would be a shared cabin. Small is good, the engineering space is unimaginably tight.

Can it be worth enough to convince an owner to send their boat down? The boat will be kept in brokerage and will need an independently housed care taker and occasional mate for me taking it to South Beach for owner use.

EDITED, US CITIZENSHIP OR PRA NOT REQUIRED  Legal status to be within the US is.

Henning
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:25 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


EDITED, US CITIZENSHIP OR PRA NOT REQUIRED  Legal status to be within the US is.
Henning
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:32 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Ok, I have an owner interested, It takes $16,000 to get the boat down here though. Since $8000 a whack is pretty steep, I can split it 4 ways but 2 people have to be willing to share a queen sized bed, a good opportunity for a couple to train together, or they can swap bed and salon couch to bring it to $4000 each.

This will be approximately a week. It's 4-7 days depending on weather and will include over 1000nm navigation from the Long Island Sound,through NY Harbour, out around Sandy Hook, down to Norfolk first day, inside using the ICW and Pamleco and Alberlmarle Sounds day two to Beaufort NC. Back offshore to Charleston, next day offshore to St Augustine with a potential for an overnight continuation to South Florida.

The boat that will be used can bee seen on my website Caphenning.com it's the one named Bank Holiday.



Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:07 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Since this forum doesn't do Personal Messages I'll give a facebook contact

All payments will be secure through Paypal.

Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:31 AM
Right, just to be clear, you're looking to CHARGE crew for the privilege of re-positioning the Bosses boat. And, out of the goodness of your heart, you'll allow 4 crew to split the fee. That's mighty generous of you.
Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:54 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


That's correct. I figure for the cost vs training quality of all the other programs I see, this is a hell of an actual training value. Cadet Ships have been operating this way for centuries.


Yeah it's a tough economy, I'm trying to find a way to get everybody a decent deal. I can leave the boat up there and no one uses it. I can figure out a way to bring it down, then everybody gets to use it including people who can't afford to own one, so you bet. How much do other training providers charge for similar trips and training?

rodsteel
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 6:45 AM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 277


Henning,

 

I left a comment on the Facebook page - it disappeared - did you clean things up?

 

Rod

 


junior
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:53 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Yah, times are tough and Ya' gotta have sympathy for yacht owners. Fuel up, Revenues down, profits down, political uncertainty..... Crew should do their duty and bailout the bankers before this smoldering crisis flares off , scorching the entire marine industry. I say raise the crew fee to an even 10 grand then fit out the crew in code flag Z printed foul weather gear "The fate of the Empire depends upon this battle. Let every man do his utmost "
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:15 AM
So I guess that Henning is exempt from the forum rules? "Forums, blogs and other posts should not be used to promote a product or service..." This is an unsolicited business advertisement. Dockwalk remove this garbage.
Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:44 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Rod, all I got in comments was a truncated message with just a quote and no more.

Junior, yeah I do, it's tough all over this year and this owner has been very good to me for over a decade, so yeah, I try to look out for him, that's what real captains do, we look out for everyone. Besides that he's a great human being and a good friend. I though I could find a deal that could be mutually beneficial to multiple parties. All I can do is present it. Whether anyone picks it up is up to them. People in other posts complaining about the quality of training available, I thought I'd present a better option and I showed them how much a better option costs. The only people that will really "profit" from this is the oil companies. They end up with most all the money.

Sir Anonymous, IYT and MPT have their own headings in this forum and their personnel always tout their quite expensive classes. They may remove it as they please, but it is also educational as well. This is what it costs to run a boat like this. If you want training like this, this is what it will cost. If the training you are being offered costs less than possible, then how can it be what it claims?

There's an opportunity for anyone who wants and can afford it, they can take or reject it as free will. Normally I can take one person a year, this year I can take 4. The TARP money never made it back into the economy so that is not a reality this year.

Yes I know, I'm such an evil vampire on the fine upstanding community of yacht service providers.







Chief
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:55 AM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


The USCG will probably see that his advertising is removed, maybe his license too. Let's see, a foreign built boat documented as recreational selling berths on a voyage between US ports with an overnight passage conducted by one licensed crewman.

Maybe just selling a job to a crewmember is enough, the master can't charge someone for a job. And if the person is really a crewmember on an American flag boat that operates commercially, he or she has to have a valid drug certificate. The list of illegal acts our dear Henning is advertising on Dockwalk is stunning.

Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:59 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Chief wrote:
The USCG will probably see that his advertising is removed, maybe his license too. Let's see, a foreign built boat documented as recreational selling berths on a voyage between US ports with an overnight passage conducted by one licensed crewman.

Maybe just selling a job to a crewmember is enough, the master can't charge someone for a job. And if the person is really a crewmember on an American flag boat that operates commercially, he or she has to have a valid drug certificate. The list of illegal acts our dear Henning is advertising on Dockwalk is stunning.


As I told you previously, cite the regulation that is being violated, there is none what so ever.

This is a US flag vessel operating as an OUPV (US Manufacture NOT required to operate a OUPV) with a USCG licensed Master rated for the route carrying <6 passengers for hire. Not a thing in the world that's illegal. As for one crewman and an overnight, there is nothing against operating at night, all you have to do is follow the required rest rules. Since those only require a second age education to figure out, I figured it would be obvious even to you.

The fact that you think any of this is illegal just shows your stunning ignorance.

The fact that there are brokerage and management firms that do US Water Daycharter with Foreign Flag vessels, perhaps you should direct your ire in that direction. You wouldn't possibly be involved in any of that right chief? OH! How could we tell? You're anonymous!!!

Post your name and your references chief, then you can attack my integrity. In the mean time, feel free to call the USCG....



Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:09 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


It's funny, people always complaining about all the crappy owners in the business, but the minute I do something to help one of the good ones out, I get dissed for it. No wonder this industry is such a crap place, there's no integrity of the people in it. There is an entire industry that sees owners as nothing more than someone to leech off of. That's why you are left with only crap owners. It's hard for me to count how many good owners I have seen driven out of this industry by all the shore side vampires.






Rusty Wrench
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:21 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


Tsk, Tsk, comments removed again, just as it was getting interesting.....
Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:28 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Rod, I figured it out, sorry, I just didn't recognize the question in the strange formatting WP does. Yes, the US East Coast.

Chief
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 2:54 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"Feel free to contact the USCG"

 

They will probably call you first.

 

So now you are calling them passengers and not crew or trainees of some sort? Since when do passengers get "time and training" documented? What kind of document do you propose awarding them Henning, a pretty certificate stating they made it through the Devil's Triangle or something?

 

http://www.uscg.mil/pvs/docs/UPV_JobAid2011.pdf

 

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipping_landing_page/domestic_shipping/small_vessel_waiver/Small_Vessel_Waiver.htm

 

 


junior
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:30 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Regardless of legalities , young crew already have a whole minefield of tickets and expenses to navigate thru before they can break into the scene. Its absurd to expect young crew to subsidize the operation of a yacht whose owner woke up one morning and realized he could no longer pay for all the toys stacked up in his trolley. You would be best to advise the owner to either get a better job or contact a charter broker to solicit bona fide charter work to subsidize the yacht.
Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:31 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Chief wrote:

"Feel free to contact the USCG"

 

They will probably call you first.

 

So now you are calling them passengers and not crew or trainees of some sort? Since when do passengers get "time and training" documented? What kind of document do you propose awarding them Henning, a pretty certificate stating they made it through the Devil's Triangle or something?

 

http://www.uscg.mil/pvs/docs/UPV_JobAid2011.pdf

 

http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipping_landing_page/domestic_shipping/small_vessel_waiver/Small_Vessel_Waiver.htm

 

 

Of course they are passengers under the eyes of the law, duh. You just posted all the rules above and I'm well within legal bounds, no questions asked. I am properly licensed, the vessel is properly documented.

You're just a blow hard who wants to remain anonymous to protect your boss at a Yacht Management firm from the stupidity of your words, because if anyone knew your actual position and company, they would never use them again. You just don't want what you have to do have any consequence to you, and that just shows an utter lack of integrity on your part.

Again, put up your name and references, show me the rule I am violating (USCG isn't ringing me yet) or sit down and shut up already. You're getting as boring to listen to as a pit bull chained in the yard that barks all day.

What people get is the trip and the training for the price of fuel. My references say my training is first rate, and I don't know how to get a better deal on the boat than "buy the fuel". I don't see how I'm cheating anyone on anything.


You have no ability to be respected when you live in anonymity.

Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:46 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


junior wrote:
Regardless of legalities , young crew already have a whole minefield of tickets and expenses to navigate thru before they can break into the scene. Its absurd to expect young crew to subsidize the operation of a yacht whose owner woke up one morning and realized he could no longer pay for all the toys stacked up in his trolley. You would be best to advise the owner to either get a better job or contact a charter broker to solicit bona fide charter work to subsidize the yacht.


There are people besides young crew who read this board, there are owners and older crew as well. This is best for the guy or gal who needs to do the last 1000NM of his Yacht Master prereques and would like to have some "finish and polish" experience and training before sitting their exams since it's nothing they get when working onboard (Deckhands, How many captains teach you and let you dock the boat at work?) or the O/O who is nervous about taking that next step up in size.

EDIT: I've just perused some of the "RYA Yachtmaster" training centers, including the "Charity" one and they all charge more money for the same mileage. So how this is a bad deal, I am uncertain.

The owner was just going to lay it up for the season, I'm trying to not have that happen. If it sits up there, nobody gains. If it comes down here, there will be one more deck/stew with a job taking care of it for the season. He and his family gets to use it, and potentially other people will get to take trips for the price of fuel.

I have tried for years to talk him into using a charter broker, he won't. I am the only person in the entire industry he trusts (he's been boating over 30 years, so he knows the reality). I am amazed he went for this offer.



Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:13 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Henning wrote:
junior wrote:
Regardless of legalities , young crew already have a whole minefield of tickets and expenses to navigate thru before they can break into the scene. Its absurd to expect young crew to subsidize the operation of a yacht whose owner woke up one morning and realized he could no longer pay for all the toys stacked up in his trolley. You would be best to advise the owner to either get a better job or contact a charter broker to solicit bona fide charter work to subsidize the yacht.


There are people besides young crew who read this board, there are owners and older crew as well. This is best for the guy or gal who needs to do the last 1000NM of his Yacht Master prereques and would like to have some "finish and polish" experience and training before sitting their exams since it's nothing they get when working onboard (Deckhands, How many captains teach you and let you dock the boat at work? How about you Junior, do you allow your deckie or mate to handle the controls when the going is tight?) or the O/O who is nervous about taking that next step up in size or has realized they are in over their heads on the boat they bought and need some experience and training to be safe.

EDIT: I've just perused some of the "RYA Yachtmaster" training centers, including the "Charity" one and they all charge more money for the same mileage. So how this is a bad deal, I am uncertain.

The owner was just going to lay it up for the season, I'm trying to not have that happen. If it sits up there, nobody gains. If it comes down here, there will be one more deck/stew with a job taking care of it for the season. He and his family gets to use it, and potentially other people will get to take trips for the price of fuel.

I have tried for years to talk him into using a charter broker, he won't. I am the only person in the entire industry he trusts (he's been boating over 30 years, so he knows the reality). I am amazed he went for this offer.




Chief
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 6:28 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


Geez Henning, rather than get all puffed up as usual, why don't you just let the documentation center know that  they too are blowhards and have the boat in their database as  holding a recreational document.  And you already have the MARAD waiver, right? or are they just out to get you as well?

 

You can claim anything you want but the publicly available documentation indicates you are trying to pull off an illegal charter under the guise of a training cruise to get a foreign built, recreational vessel from A to B. If you have a legitimate operation then provide the proof. It is not the responsibility of a paying passenger to research the legality, it is yours to demonstrate.

 

I bet the underwriters will have a ball with this one.

 

And by the way, trying to bluff your way through this by spitting all over me for pointing out the glaring inconsistencies just makes you look even more foolish. A good aspect of it though is that your target marks ... suckers ... guests .... passengers ... students ... victims ... whatever you want to call them will know what kind of "instructor" they have to deal with. 

 


Shade
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:43 PM
Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 1


Not sure if its worth it

Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:52 PM
so what certifcate or qualification do i get for my $4000 that will benefit me to a future employer or experience gained to further my seafaring career?? I can go to a training organisation in florida spend $3500 for 11 days of training and come out of it with a YM offshore which is recognised by the MCA. Seems like alot of money to help out do a delivery down the coast...usually boats will pay the delivery crew..are we setting a new standard in the industry. Those crew wanting to gain additional sea miles will ride for free to be that extra hand to gain further experience in watching keeping, navigation and chamois techniques...I'm with junior get your boss in touch with a broker and instead of blatantly trying to rip people off..$4000 for 4-7 days is a joke...by the way will we have to pay for our flights back as well or chip in for food?????
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 1:44 AM
Henning you have really shown us all who you are with this. I see your forum comments on every little subject imaginable. You write like you know things but... You are a fool! You are a diving boat captain ( at best) and out of touch with the real yachting industry. Please never come back to Dockwalk again. This is for the yachting industry. It looks like your writing for Dockwalk with the Ipad weekly Nav updates. heaven help us, cant wait to read that. Will the Dockwalk webmaster get rid of this guy. You must be such a sad lonely person to write so many Forum posts. get a life man. Honestly I check it out every month or so and there is your name commenting on everything. If your owner cant afford to delivery the yacht then he cant afford the yacht. Sounds like he is pretending to be something he is not, as are you. Get some help man, go back to Germany and get some friends.
John Doe
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:17 AM
Joined: 13/10/2008
Posts: 68


While everyone is hammering on Henning, I just want to point out that the title of the original post was "What would it be worth, hypothetically...?" And ANONYMOUS 01:44, you act like he molested a small child with your pathetic scolding. This is also the same man who posted about the Heros who helped rescue the stranded victims from Manhattan Island after Sept, 11. You want to judge a man based on this particular topic. I will remove comment edited by moderator myself. you Beepin Beep.
rodsteel
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 5:38 AM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 277


Some time ago, I mentioned on another thread, that I would be interested in the opportunity to receive the type of experience proposed by Henning (one or two weeks on an actual yacht) for a reasonable fee. Unless you actually get hired onto a yacht (or sign up for two to four years of formal education - such as some community colleges or maritime academies provide), this type of experience is not currently (or at least not easily) available for those who are seriously interested in making yachting a career but don't have the necessary experience or have certain "xxxx-challenged" characteristics to get past the initial barriers raised by some crew agents and/or captains.

 

Granted, this would not contribute that much to a formal MCA-type license but in many ways I think it would be much more valuable. During my career I have found that two weeks intensive, hands-on instruction from a knowledgeable individual has been much more valuable than a semester's worth of "education".

 

I like Henning's proposal (and pricing), but I think the yacht is too small

 

Rod


John Doe
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:30 AM
Joined: 13/10/2008
Posts: 68


What is being proposed here is NOT a new concept. Tons Inadequate US captains charge delivery crew for repositions and chalk it up to training. Remember the very true story of the Husband and wife team that took a couple of backpackers who thought they were getting "yacht training" and paid the fee to be sequestered at sea for something like 72 days with minuscule rations off the coast of SA for what would have normally been a 14 or so day passage ? Price might sound steep to "professional crew", but to the adventure seeker it is a fair price. Yea, go get your "Yacht Master" for the same price. Some people are not that serious about it and just want an opportunity to be at sea. I volunteered on a tall ship for 3 months many moons ago, then went on to make 50 dollars a week on a run down sailboat in the Bahamas. I survived a hurricane and a captains stroke. It cost me thousands. I am now a Master and I tell you, the only reason I am is because of the experience I paid for, not any friggin training facility. You don't buy experience, you earn it. Crew today are not seaman....."what does that get me" attitude kills. You obtain minimum qualifications to make money, you have no passion for the sea and you are certainly are in it for the wrong reasons. Then you whine because you have to go out for the day. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SAILORS. Go work in a car wash if all you want is to make something shiny for 8 hours a day. Education and training in any form is a valuable commodity which is so lacking these days it has become disheartening. I tied a barrel knot the other day to lift a 50 gallon barrel onto the swim platform using a 1000 year old basic hitch that was so effective and simple the deckhand and a captain form another boat were convinced it wasn't going to work. It was so correct and simple it is as old as the word tonnes and was designed to lift them. I was the Idiot in their eyesto the point the deckhand tried to re-tie it until i threatened to fire him if he went near it. The skills of seaman ship are so long forgotten that people laugh at you if you don't converse at an IYT/MCA/RYA/Level. Sad really. So go ahead Henning, try to make the Ocean a safer place, if not for anyone else but the guy coming the other way....Me ! PS. I will not post anonymous.
junior
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:52 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Rod,Speak to a quality yacht broker or project manager. I already have " free crew" lined up for next years movements . These crew many times come from yacht brokers or managers and are people who have no intention of working in the industry. They are simply interested in doing a practice run. They sign on as two week delivery crew to gain seatime for their small craft license, observe how a ship is operated, how to grab weather forecasts , learn about harbours of refugee.... in return they behave like regular crew and lend a hand. Its entirely possible that I could charge them , but I never have, we are not a charter yacht. Speak with a broker or manager Rod, they always have boats on the move.
Chief
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 12:14 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


Rod, there are literally hundreds of opportunities to get crewing experience of almost every sort, for free, for share, for every level and every interest. There is no need to pay for an illegal charter or a worthless certificate.


Save your money for a good accident insurance policy and a flight home and have the kind of experience that several here have described as the only route to success in the yacht industry ... it is still available, it is usually free, and it is almost always something to remember.


Take a look at  this site for a start:  http://www.floatplan.com/crew.htm and look around, there are several more online and on the pages of recreational boating magazines.

By the way, there was nothing hypothetical about that original post. It was an advertisement. It was simultaneously posted on another yachting website with a very clear description of the offer and the price.

rodsteel
Posted: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:39 PM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 277


junior wrote:
... Speak with a broker or manager Rod, ...


Thanks junior (and Chief - I hadn't found that web site - unfortunately most of the ads are for sail boats under 50' - I am interested in a couple of weeks engineering/ETO exposure on Motor Yachts over 40m).

 

Regards,

 

Rod

 


Rusty Wrench
Posted: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 12:42 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


You may find Hennings' blatent ad. under classifieds/deliveries in 'www.thet_ _ _ _n.com'
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 12:05 AM
blah blah blah blah..... get on with your jobs!
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:19 AM
Would Everyone just band together and SWEAR "I Will Never Do A Delivery For Free". PLease people, It would make the world a Much Better Place!! Anyone asking you to pay for the privalege of moving their yacht is a SHYSTER! End of Story!
 
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