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M/Y Kai Damages Croatian Marina
Janine
Posted: Monday, August 8, 2011 3:32 PM
Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 392


An article on www.croatiantimes.com reported that the captain of M/Y Kai, a 30-meter Virgin Islands-flagged yacht, “is being investigated after he left the engine running of a multi-million pound yacht that then snapped its mooring ropes and went on the rampage through a top marina.”
 
The incident took place in the Port of Hvar in Hvar, Croatia.
 
According to the article, officials say the captain had docked and tied up the vessel close to the Carpe Diem lounge, but forgot to turn off the engine. The vessel then snapped her lines, hitting five other yachts in the marina and injuring two.
 
Read the full article here: http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/General_News/2011-08-06/21039/Brit_Captain_Probed_Over_Marina_Smash


Henning
Posted: Tuesday, August 9, 2011 10:18 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Wow, that's hard to believe right there....

Danni
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:33 AM
Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 1


The whole thing sounds a bit wrong. For a start I'd like to see a 30m Benetti that could sleep 11 crew and 13 guests! I'd say there's a fair bit of creative journalism going on.
Captain Andy
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:06 AM
Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 93


M/Y KAI is a Benetti Classic 37m. I saw her in Atlantis Hotel Resort marina, Bahamas in February. Apparently, the Captain only recently joined the yacht: but that is just the 'grapevine' working!
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:22 AM
I've certainly forgotten nav lights on before...but As for the main engines? Thats a little tricky! Sounds like journalistic creativity
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 6:09 AM
This type of incident is not uncommon .
Chris Monaco Marine
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 6:18 AM
Joined: 30/06/2009
Posts: 1


This type of incident is not uncommon . Just recently I was called to replace multi-lever electronic engine controls on a 45 meters MY. Often the wing controls lay under a waterproof box that in order to be closed need the levers on full speed position to be lower in height. In this cases when the engines are turned on , they can accideantally automatically switch on gear if the throttle in question is online .This will lead to disaster.MY KAY incident may be the case. Be carefull ,it can happen !!
Capt Edward P
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:13 AM
Joined: 06/01/2011
Posts: 81


Chris Monaco Marine - Chris even if they are in the full ahead position I do not see how the engine interlock could work preventing starting. We all know you should never start engines in gear as it is bad mechanical practice - rather I think he had left the engines running after nipping up to the quay and then when lines were applied and the boat came to a standstill left them running and the lines then undid or slipped through or ripped ......Secondly, 0/10 to the yacht designers who designed a box that would not cover the levers in their "neutral" upright positions. Who on earth designed this boat? Having to move the levers to forward so you can close the box precludes use in a hurricane in the rain for instance. Also the system should preclude engagement of gears unless the levers are in neutral so I do not see how your explanation could work in the levers-forward position. Just about the most bonkers and daft design and I hope whomever drafted this gets fired. Yours 'aye
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:40 AM
Continue to engage crew cutting wages: this is one of the best result! Now I would like to ask to the owner how much money he saved...
HASTA SIEMPRE!

SBC
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 8:53 AM
Joined: 14/10/2008
Posts: 33


Chris´s point is very valid. A very likely scenario would be, that the captain had left the engines on after berthing, then got sidetracked by an agent or similar on the quay, while a junior crew member was busy cleaning up, tries to close the plexiglass lid over the controls, wont close, so he/she jams forward the controls. A slight delay, then both gears engage and slowly build to max RPM! Now, anyone can imagine the disaster THAT would create. Safe sailing (sic) all!
ARMADA Marine Alastair Heane
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:17 AM
Joined: 11/02/2011
Posts: 1


Chris is right; this is a case not at all isolated and indeed has been the subject of many Flag State debates of which I have been involved when building and refitting Red Flag vessels. See the link  http://www.cishipping.com/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/SRGHOME/SURVEY/CASUALTYINVESTIGATION/JEMASA%20REPORT.PDF

We can all be armchair designers, but as Chris and myself have practical experience in dealing with such issues, please take our view as one of experience. Accidents happen and when they do, all the facts are taken in consideration and legislation implimented. Even large ships use have their propulsion engaged when stemming tide or wind while lines are made fast and this is common practice, I am sure will remain for the future.  

bradkitcher
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:19 PM
Joined: 01/06/2011
Posts: 1


Do not leave controls alone when the engines are running.  This is basic stuff guys.  People die.  If you are not capable of multi-tasking and are distracted easily you should not be on a boat let alone in charge.

I dont know if this is what happened in Hvar but if he did leave live controls then he should be bought up on criminal charges and lose his license.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:32 PM
90% of wing station controls have to be pressed flat down in forward or reverse for the cover to fit on. Mine is the same way and we are an Amels one of the best boats built. I never turn on the engines with out both wing stations open and in the neutral position for this reasion exactly. It scares the hell out of me knowing that I have two sets of controls in the full steem ahead position.
Tom C
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:41 PM
Joined: 01/03/2011
Posts: 18


I think this statement is little too aggrevated. For example think of all the possibilties of how this accident could have occurred. For example some yachts run winches and capstans off the pto´s. Therefore requiring the engine´s to be running to use the hydraulics. Then imagine a really badly caught anchor or mooring line which on a benetti 37 (which does not have 11 crew and 13 guests) might require all available man power to be involved to untagle it. Or you have half the deck crew at the stern, girls on service and only 1 crew member at the bow sorting out mooring lines and the captain has to rush from the bridge to the bow to assist, needing the engines on for hydraulic power. Or a case of electric malfunction such as a baglietto i remember careening into the harbour wall in Verrazze. Then add in demanding guests and you have thousands of situations where the controls may be left unguarded whilst the engines are running which in my opinion are not crimes.
yachtone
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:21 PM
Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 96


As always when something like this happens the know nothings leap in to blame the Captain. No one other than the Captain should touch the controls until given permission to do so and the engines are always left running until the Captain is satisfied that  the vessel is safe and secure.

sean
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:45 PM
Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 87


As per usual... the facts are completely wrong...the photo in the referenced article isn't even 'Kai', though its captions say it is.  basically the facts are not accurate.  I hope all involved with this incident are safe and we can all take a lesson from this.

As for those boats where wing-station throttles are left engaged, thats just shit design...and basically very unsafe with no excuse for it.  Somehow, there are thousands of other hydraullic designs that dont require the throttlles to be engaged to close the wing cover but it sounds pretty typical of crap itilian design (Benetti, Azimut & Feretti) where style overtakes function & in this case safety. 


junior
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 4:22 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Who cares what controls the guy had...who cares what the size of the boat was. The facts are clear , that captain...another arrogant, gin palace driving ,charter tip pandering goon... is a dam fool. Everything that is wrong with modern superyachting is clear to see in this incident. Regardless of his inability to control his power plants, Hvar harbor is dangerously exposed . The coast pilot states.. Esposto al vento da nw. I venti da S. provocano grosse porto. onde E maretta nel... I have seen 20 metre yachst heaved upon the dock in Hvar by summer thunderstorms. I know of no pro captain who would ever risk the yacht and his crew on the Hvar harbour wall. Every pro I know anchors offshore of the harbour and tenders ashore. That captain was a fool for stampeding thru the harbour and dam fool to even be in the harbour. In addition the harbor is so small that ..LOOK AT THE GIN PALACE PICTURED in the Croatian times article...SHE HAS HER DAM ANCHORS AT 45 degree angles to her bow...every yacht on her side IS TRAPPED..UNABLE TO ESCAPE THE HARBOUR WHEN The Evening THUNDERSTORM HITS. To make matters even worse, Hvar harbour has mooring bollards placed for alongside traffic.. 25 meters apart... NOT 10 meters apart for Stern too. I am certain that the yacht would be hanging on one bollard with her second stern line fixed to a small craft ring. Plenty of dam fools around, they always cling to charter stinkpots and they always become visable during high summer season.
sean
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 5:11 PM
Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 87


Pretty arrogant there 'Junior' you pro captain you.   But to be fair, the reports arent accurate at all, so like most, its easy to talk trash from your latop in the crew mess...thats why i dont and you shouldnt either.  But hey, you seem like you know it all.

Hvar is no worse a port that Portofino, Ithaka, most small spots in Croatia, Sicily and hell...a great deal of the med.  So no, you dont tie up there if there's forcasted weather.  we got in and out with a 50m plenty fine.  We did cross an anchor (as happens in all of the med) so thats why you do your job, stay communicated with  the surrouning yachts and have equipment & crew to handle the job. 

Welcome to yachting Junior...

 


Janine
Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 9:55 PM
Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 392


An updated article on Croatiantimes.com reports that the captain was fined 1,250 pounds.

Read the full article here: http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/General_News/2011-08-08/21049/Brit_captain_fined_for_mess_caused_in_port_of_Hvar

Miss B Haven
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2011 7:34 AM
Joined: 26/09/2008
Posts: 11


You can blame designers, the deck crew who replace the cover on the wings or the manufacturer of the controls for faulty electronics but it all comes down to the captain. Never leave the wheelhouse until the engines are SHUT DOWN!! There is always plenty to do while waiting for the engineer to shut down the mains. Logbook, radar shutdown, tidying wheelhouse and covering your own controls..and so on. And where was the engineer anyway? If he needs the engines to stay running for some checks, he should take the controls back down stairs.
junior
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2011 7:39 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


http://news.crotouristguide.com/hr/view/-/journal_content/56_INSTANCE_A5rP/10122/38879 And another Hvar ginpalace accident for you. http://www.jutarnji.hr/hvar--nasukala-se-jahta-moon-duzine-40-metara/962762/
Miss B Haven
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2011 7:57 AM
Joined: 26/09/2008
Posts: 11


Hey Danni, Its a Benetti. They always outnumber the crew with berths. Its a known fact.
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:10 AM
This goes out to Captain Edward P. I believe Chris is very right, as this incident has occured on a yacht I have worked on. The engines were on after docking & as an uninformed crew member put the wing station cover on, put the throttles forward & then one of our lines snapped off the dock with extreme force. Luckily other crew members were near by to stopped the engines.
junior
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2011 7:04 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Since all stinkpots look the same to me...oil stained waterlines, exhaust marks on the topsides and staffed by STCW clutching backpacker crew in uniform ...Im not one to identify gin palace brands. This is the TV footage of the stampede incident for Dockwalk yacht spotters. http://informer.ba/tekstovi/vijesti/hvar-jahta-udarila-pet-brodova-dvoje-povrijedenih/
kapt_mark
Posted: Thursday, August 11, 2011 9:32 PM
Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 81


Genoa harbour, September, 2008. 45m Heesen called Brasil. Apparent loss of control by skipper switching from port to starboard wing stations, t- boned 4 little sail boats and put a big gash in her bow. Sounds like a similar type of incident except, they had not tied up yet.  We then loaded on to dockwise for Lauderdale with Brasil. one of the Ukrainian crew of DW fell off a small yacht whilst cleaning it and was off loaded in a strecther onto a pilot boat via a deck crane just off Cartagena. his blood stained flip flop lay on the deck next to my boat for about 2 weeks til it was finally washed over board. Accidents are all too common...

Henning
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:03 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


If you have electronic controls, it's easy enough to add a guarded cut out switch to control stations. I had a portable "Control box" that would hang on either wing or stow under the helm seat (what a poor design that was). First thing I did was add a cut out. Flip the guard down and the engine controls are disabled for when someone walks by and hits a lever or someone is putting the box away. If I'm not at the controls, the controls are dead and it takes three concerted moves to make it active again.

murf
Posted: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:06 PM
Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 32


I also work on a Benetti Classic 37m (and we were moored next to Kai a few weeks ago) and we had a similar incident last week. We started the engines with the bridge wings closed (and thus the levers in full ahead position). When the engineer started the engines they were in gear. The yacht moved forward but luckily the engineer immediately stopped the engines. The yacht bounced around on it's mooring lines but no damage was done (and no injuries thank god!).

It seems that one of the bridge wing controls must have taken control on it's own when the engines were started. The previous captain had also experienced some odd behaviour with the throttle controls. Now we only start the engines with the bridge wing controls open and the levers in neutral.

benjaminfisher
Posted: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:27 PM
Joined: 10/05/2008
Posts: 21


Murf

In general, the engines will only start in gear if the engine is started on the engine control box. You will then overide the safety for starting in gear. Engineers should be aware of this and check the stations, at least by activating a station that he knows is not in gear before starting the engines.

I really do not believe that controls just "go into gear on their own". Even with coorosion in a unit you will notice irregularities before it just activates on its own. These cases are user error that people try to explain as equipment error.


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, August 18, 2011 1:47 AM
Engineer started the engines in gear........ really, didnt bother with the simple pre start checks. Oil level, coolant level, gearbox oil level , gearbox in neutral, bridge informed. Start. Is he still the engineer or is he just a deckie with a weeks course.
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 26, 2011 3:01 PM
The captain had just tied up, the engine were still on, he transferred control from the Stbd wing control to the wheelhouse and heard the command from the Rexroth controls telling him it had been transferred, thinking that the wing station was dead he folded the throttles to full power to store the wing stations. The rest is history. My advice is that all of you captains that have to store wing controls in this manner only do so after a complete shut down of the plant. As for damage and injuries……none the captain was tested by the local authorities and blew a 0.0 The two Croatian crew members who claimed to have been injured walked away with quite a large sum of money and some damages were paid to the harbor to repair the moorings. More advice when traveling this part of the world: keep a lot of cash in the safe, because if you do have a minor incident or god forbid a major one everyone has their hand out and it gets expensive. Danni excellent observation Benetti Classics max out at 8 crew but this time there were 7 and no charter boat will take more than 12 guests. The newspaper report is suspicious because whoever wrote it knows 13 guests is illegal and would attract the attention of Flag state? Oh and get the flag right it's Cayman!
murf
Posted: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 8:44 PM
Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 32


So we were cruising in open sea last week. I was on watch. Suddenly both engines rev up to full ahead. I put the Rexroth controls on the bridge to neutral. Engines still full ahead. I shut down the engines. Then I realise it must have been that one of the bridge wing controls took command. I take command on the bridge, I hear the beep, I see the command light come on. I start the engines. Immediately to full ahead. I stop the engines. Open both bridge wing controls and fold up the throttle levers. Take command on the bridge, start the engines. Port bridge wing immediately takes command and will not allow me to take command on the bridge. We continue the trip driving from the port bridge wing. After a few hours we can take command in the bridge again, but after an hour or so the port bridge wing takes command again (which is still in neutral). Luckily this happened in open sea!
 
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