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non-smoker, non-drinker means more work
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, October 23, 2010 3:53 AM
Non-drinkers need not apply------- It is impossible to work on a yacht without being pressured into having a drink and for those that don’t drink or rarely drink it is more than a choice, it is a right. ----Saying no to a drink does have consequences because it means something to other people when it should mean nothing at all. ----If I could change one think about being a non-smoker and non-drinker it would be this; ----Give me a work list for the day and let me knock off when I am done, because I am tired of working late and carrying the load of slackers that smoke all day and move at a snail’s pace whenever they’ve had a big night out and are hangover.----Smokers and drinkers lose a lot of productive time during the day because of their social habits and I’d like to compare the job performances of non-smokers and non-drinkers against smokers and heavy drinkers, ----because I see a lot of time going out the window for smoke breaks on the quay and non-productive hours because of hangovers. ---- I’ve worked alongside enough smokers to know that I need to keep working when they sneak off for a fag break and I’ve worked with enough drinkers to know they will feel sick and be lethargic until precisely knock off time and miraculously find the energy to go for another drink or ten.---- Oh and did I mention that smokers and heavy drinkers also seem to be the first to get sick, strange how burning a leaf and breathing in it's smoke will make you feel bad, or how staying up all night drinking and not eating will reduce your immune system.
Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 23, 2010 8:47 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


This post belongs in "Crew Confessor" why?

Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, October 23, 2010 10:28 PM
Maybe I am trying to confess the errors of my crew mates and get it off my chest, because the only two other alternatives are quit or get fired after I loose control and confront the slackers that are the first to sit, the first to leave and the last ones to arrive at their station when the workday begins. I am certain others feel my angst and can't believe that these fools put in the minimum and get away with it. Reading the pleas of those looking for work while working alongside bar flies is hard to fathom. I am Glad to have a job and wonder why I should work as hard as I do when others don't. My social habit don't effect my work and Henning I thought you did not care what people do so long as it did not effect work.
junior
Posted: Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:12 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Everyone has some defect. The attribute you look for in crew is work ethic. Coming to work hung over is the classic sign of poor work ethic. Yachts are magnets for young people who have no real drive , no destination, who are just enjoying youth. Its just something a captain has to understand and work around. You wont solve the productivity issue by prohibition, only by keeping a sharp lookout for people with a strong work ethic. One of the curses of the modern yacht scene is the difficulty in getting a dayworker thru security and onto the yacht. 90 percent of the time when I bring a dayworker into a shipyard its to perform a "Make Pretend youre a crew " task that allows me carefull observe thier work ethic for a week and asertain whether they are crew material.
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, October 24, 2010 1:34 PM
wah wah wah wah!!!!!! just cause you drink or smoke or even do both does not mean you have a poor work ethic. In all industries people show up to work with a hang over so whats the difference in yachting. understandably if one is doing this on a day to day basis then this is a problem but who cares if it is once a month! Just because you choose not to drink or smoke what is your right to judge others that do...let me guess you are a bible basher as well!!!!Instead of complaining about it on the internet why dont you step up and bring the issue up with your superior if it is a constant issue.... How are yachts a magnet for young people with no real drive you need drive to obtain a job in the first place and to also last in this industry...[removed by moderator]
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 7:29 PM
I think this post needs some helpful advice. I am a female, a really hard-worker, exceptionally driven etc etc.
My first yachting job was heavenly- I took a lot of pride in my work - I was too scared to go out- dare I oversleep etc. I need to mention that I am a party animal- love dancing, socialising and (used to) drinking.

Something happened along the way, needless to say, I don't work on yachts anymore. Rather, than getting fired from a job, what I needed was to someone to really step up and sit me down- not condemn me but ask me why I was drinking so much, what I was trying to avoid, why I was unhappy- I truly believe that people who drink too much are using it as an escape mechanism- I was but I thought I was just partying, any excuse to get off the yacht. There are a lot of young people in the industry, and who are all the same type- hungry for adventure, travel and life...sometimes they lose their way and are far from home and maybe the older crew- should offer helpful advice and guidance...rather than criticism and irate opinions.

My situation deteriorated because no one took the time to ask if I was okay, even when I thought I was okay.


Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 8:34 PM
Wow, so they DO exist!  All this time, I thought I was the only non smoker/drinker working in the yachting industry.  Anyway, I must say that I completely agree with everything you said - I am also tired of picking up the slack for these people. 
To add insult to injury, I am also viewed as the "antisocial" or "boring" one because I would rather go explore new places than examine the inside of a bottle during every day off. 
Funny how everybody is bashing this post so far - obviously they must be the drinkers/smokers that make up most of the industry.  Sad, really, but it seems to be the harsh reality of yachting. 
As for taking up the issue with my superiors, that is not really an option because they are the biggest alcoholics on board!  Kind of ironic that the ones who are supposedly the most "professional" are the same ones tearing up the town every night and showing up to work drunk (not hungover, still drunk!)



Keri O'Kroneg
Posted: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 9:47 PM
Joined: 22/10/2010
Posts: 1


Non drinking/non smoking Stewardess looking for a job. Would love to work with "antisocial" and "boring"!!! I believe strongly in pulling my weight during my workday and would rather explore the local sights on time off instead of the local watering holes.
junior
Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:30 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Well Kerri and anonymous...no use complaining, live and learn. Plenty of well run yachts who simply never have issues with crew arriving drunk. Place yourself on these yachts.
Henning
Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:05 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


junior wrote:
Well Kerri and anonymous...no use complaining, live and learn. Plenty of well run yachts who simply never have issues with crew arriving drunk. Place yourself on these yachts.


Exactly, if you don't like the company you're in, change where you are. As you say, there are plenty of boats that aren't run and occupied by a bunch of drunks. When you make poor choices, the only one you really have to complain to is yourself. The only thing worse than a drunk is a whiner.

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 6:40 AM
Let’s face facts here; drinking and smoking are social activities with deep-seated roots in society. The consequences of abusing alcohol and regularly smoking are well known and it is purely an individual choice when it comes to how or if a person consumes these substances. It is takes much more strength to say no to a drink, than it does to say yes and I for one encourage moderation, because going too far with anything is never good.
Capt.Phil
Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:03 AM
Joined: 15/03/2010
Posts: 2


There are some boats that are damaged in their work ethic by drinkers and smokers, there are plenty that are not. This is a management issue. The fact that you feel that your life is disadvantaged by the heavy drinkers is important. I happen to be a non-drinker but smoker so I can see over both sides of the fence, and if one of my crew feels the way you do it is important to me as Captain. The comfort and security of all crew is my responsibility and I suggest you come and work with a crew where heavy drinking is not considered to be appropriate behaviour unless it is occasionally validated, say end of charter. On these occasions it is part of my job to be the responsible watchkeeper and set my crew free to enjoy themselves. My suggestion is that you find a yacht where adult work and play is allowed and organised.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:25 AM
I am also viewed as the "antisocial" or "boring" That is soo true which is very very sad. If you want to be fresh and alert and ready to work it shouldn't be a negative. I worked as mate on a 50m a few years ago and a reference check after I left said that "I had poor communication skills". When the interviewing captain asked for elaboration, my old captain said it was because I didn't stay out til 4am and get drunk every night with him. Its a shame because while they were at the pub no one was left on watch on the yacht and the yacht has just been re-built after it burnt to the waterline in a marina (5-6 years ago).. don't know about you but I would rather work with crew that are sober and sit watches and be capable of handling an incident like a fire if it happened again.. Drinking is fine, but in moderation... and on days off etc. Being a non drinker should not lead to a negative reference. Finally I am surprise that the non drinkers out there even have a job, it seems to be a pre-req to get a job on yachts these days.
junior
Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:37 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


For captains, one of the easiest ways to turn down the volume on natural crew exhuberance is to avoid mainstream yachting ports when the yacht goes into downtime mode. At present Im in a second tier port and I noticed that the local yacht crew gang was lined up on the dock at 0630 saturday morning...not returning home from bars but preparing to board the local wreck diving boat. I even notice Lycra clad mountain bike yacht crew occsionally tearing down the quay after work. There are no late night bars within 10 miles of the port. Just like every port, crew in blue work overalls have a Mon to Friday Beer oclock gab at the port cafe , but it knocks off after a beer. A big advantage of non mainstream yachting ports.
Nimrod
Posted: Wednesday, November 3, 2010 2:50 AM
Joined: 30/09/2010
Posts: 1


I do not think that drinking, if any, or smoking should have any impact on the job. If some one think that a smoker work less harder, then he is a fool. no one will keep a worker afloat or on land, that will work less due to smoking time. Regard the hangover, that is something I do not want to encounter on board. It's simple. If u do not know ur drinking limits, dont drink! Not to mantion that many legistlation and insurance do not allow alcohol on board. Just to keep in mind.
directorbman
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2011 1:58 AM
Joined: 31/07/2011
Posts: 3


You are defending alcoholism and probably don't even know it. His point wasn't to bash people who have a drink or smoke a sig. You missed it completely. And I understand where he is coming from. I've worked with slackers myself, they come in all forms and not all of them are slackers because of the drink, or a smoke, some are slackers for other reasons. Also it seems that in the yachting industry the one who complains is the one who gets fired. Because he is a minority, for what, his lack of alcoholic abuse? He is the one who will get picked on bashed and fired. Not the other guys - and it is because he is outnumbered. So who is really suffering from this scenario?


Anonymous wrote:
wah wah wah wah!!!!!! just cause you drink or smoke or even do both does not mean you have a poor work ethic. In all industries people show up to work with a hang over so whats the difference in yachting. understandably if one is doing this on a day to day basis then this is a problem but who cares if it is once a month! Just because you choose not to drink or smoke what is your right to judge others that do...let me guess you are a bible basher as well!!!!Instead of complaining about it on the internet why dont you step up and bring the issue up with your superior if it is a constant issue.... How are yachts a magnet for young people with no real drive you need drive to obtain a job in the first place and to also last in this industry...[removed by moderator]


beachbum
Posted: Monday, August 1, 2011 6:28 AM
Joined: 17/04/2011
Posts: 14


This is a really interesting point.  In a previous life I worked in an office. As it happened I couldn´t hack it and after 5 months departed. Chained to a desk? No thanks. One thing that was very well set up was the smoking break procedure. Each smoker had to "punch out" and "punch in" before / after each cigarette.

This caused uproar when it was first introduced (for the smokers obviously!) as it became clear just how much time people wasted smoking. In a standard 9-5 with an hour lunch, smokers were working till at least 6 just to compensate for cigarette time. I absolutely loved walked out at 5 seeing them all staying on to complete the daily hours. I don´t think smokers work any less intensely, they just seem to work for less amount of time.

As for drinking, I think it is case dependant. Play time is play time. If you have the following day off, do what the hell you like as long as you´re not causing a scene or bringing the yacht´s name into disrepute. I love going out and having a few drinks and yes, sometimes it will get merry, but it´s quite rare that I do this, if for no other reason than I´m pretty keen to keep the weight off. 

I can never believe the amount of people that just make a beeline for the bar in a new place, then will moan about never being able to see the places we travel to. I cycle a lot and take my bike to all sorts of places and have some fantastic photos from all the locations we´ve visited.

I think it is dependant on what you´re doing as to quality of work & amount consumed the previous night. I could chammy all day hung over and there´d be no drop in quality of work but if I had to repair something, touch up some gelcoat or do something slightly more technical then forget it.

Paul
Posted: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 10:55 PM
Joined: 13/12/2010
Posts: 3


Two seperate but similar issues here. One is taking unapproved time off work during working hours. Two doing something outside of work hours that affects your work performance. Smoking is a personal choice but when you take a break for a 'ciggie' during working hours you are taking an unauthorized break. I met this first in a land based job. My solution, when the smokers went out for a 'ciggie' I went out as well (and stood upwind in the fresh air). When asked why I was outside having a break I replied "I'm having my 'ciggie break'!". Funny thing next day, official posting for whole company that 'ciggie' breaks were no longer allowed and anyone caught would face disciplinary action if not dismissal. Later I worked on a large yacht where crew are asked at interview 'Do you smoke?' If yes they don't get the job. If they reply no and are later seen smoking even off the yacht in personal time it is grounds for dismissal as they have lied on the application. I have carried this over to all yachts I have commanded as in my experience smokers are generally slacker than non smoking crew. Part two is doing something in your personal time that affects your work performance. This can be drugs, alcohol, simply staying out late to often and becoming overtired! Unfortunately this is a cultural problem and needs to be addressed as part of the Yachts systems. This starts with the Captain and his implementation of a sound policy and directives to crew including curfews, repercussions etc. As a captain I have taken a number of especially young crew aside and advised them of the perils of the their actions, not only for their employment but also for their health. I try and run a ship where crew are given alternatives, especially challenges to do in their time off be that exercise, study, problem solving and also offer counseling/treatment options when appropriate. This is the carrot, the stick is if the crew turn up hungover or in a state of fatigue and cannot perform the role fully or safely they are sent back to quarters, pay is docked for the day. A meeting is scheduled for later in the day allowing for a suitable recovery period and the crew member is requested to appear to make a presentation as to why they should remain as part of the team. This meeting often leads to discovering the underlying problems and often are easily resolved. The key here is carrot and stick. As an example; I had a stewardess have her drink spiked and not be able to work the next day. This came out at the meeting after discussing the previous nights events and the solution was to counsel the younger crew about drinks safety and drinking in pairs so each can look out for the other. This resolved the situation and the team approach of crew looking out for each other had further rewards. Later she went on to become a great chief stew. I've also had crew who it turned out were on drugs and or alcoholic and we were able to get them to the medical care they needed. Unfortunately it meant they had to leave the vessel and we were able to go and build a stronger team having learnt from the experience. So at then end of the day it is about culture onboard. Ask some more questions at the interview! If the yacht your on has a bad culture start looking for one that doesn't - they are harder to get on because the crew don't generally leave. Go to your Captain in confidence and ask to discuss the issue, ask to discuss the culture and be willing to offer practical solutions. They may be unaware of the level of the problem on their yacht or its serious implications - a hungover or fatigued crew member who has an accident could be a case for prosecution and not only potential fines but loss of license and employment.
Chanelmarais
Posted: Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:08 AM
Joined: 15/07/2011
Posts: 2


Having read everyones thoughts and feelings, I think I should share mine as well... I am a drinker & smoker, I like my socail life and in the same breath I am extremely hard working, when I know I have things that need to be done, or I am on a time line, others work is dependant on my work, I will NOT take a ciggie break nor will I go out the previous night and come to work hungover. It is all about the balance, you need to be able to balance your life choices and their consequences with you work , morale and attitude. I can tell you that I have worked with many non-smoker and smokers and I have definetely seen that I have worked twice the amount that a non-smoker has. My advise is set the rule, respect that they smoke but have it that no smoke breaks are taken during work hours but have them be free to do what they feel like after hours. Reprimand them when they break that rule. Respect that they drink but if being hungover is a weekly ocurance reprimand them... And if they dont get it the second or thrid time then your hiring crew that are there for nothing more than to party and have things their way. Just do not make sucha generalisation that "smokers" - thus referring to all people that smoke, are slackers, because I am most definetely not... Prioritise, its about the quality of people you hire!!!
James John Irvine
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:58 AM
Joined: 10/05/2012
Posts: 1


Non-Smoking... fair enough. Zero alcohol policy, I've only worked on one ship like that in the Baltic.... never again!! Was hard to break the ice with crew mates.... ship didn't bother having barbeques since the policy came out... general atmosphere was miserable... I drink but I work very hard! In my last job with Delta-Marine we had a very small crew so I was a Cook/Deckhand/Welder-Fabricator/general maintenance.... there was some weeks on site I might have been on shift for longer than 2 days with a couple of hours sleep if I was lucky. It was so good to go for a relaxing drink after that!! When it comes to alcohol..... key word... "Moderation"
 
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