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Crossing the "Pond" - East to West - Facts, Fiction and Folklore??
rodsteel
Posted: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:37 PM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 275


I am curious what one should be prepared to experience on a 40m to 60m Motor Yacht when crossing from Monaco to Miami in early October? e.g., preparation, weather, route, duration, duties of various crew members, common 'troubles", etc.


junior
Posted: Saturday, June 19, 2010 12:00 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Could be wet...bring an umbrella. 2008 saw KYLE, LAURA, MARCO, NANA, OMAR. http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tracks/2008atl.jpg
rodsteel
Posted: Monday, June 21, 2010 8:09 PM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 275


Junior,

 

Wouldn't the "normal" East to West route be chosen to avoid such weather patterns?

 

Rod

 

P.S. (and other captains - please chip in if you have participated in such a crossing)


English Andy
Posted: Monday, June 21, 2010 9:42 PM
Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 93


Rod, if you would like to have a full and frank discussion via email with an ex-Royal Navy Submarine Navigator with 30 years of seafaring experience, please send you email address to yacht_captain@live.com. Hope to hear from you soon.....
junior
Posted: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:01 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Dont know about the capabilities of motoryachts. Best to keep your eyes open in OCT for embedded tropical weather. Tropical weather doesn't mean only hurricanes. Couple years ago departing Cadiz for Antigua in October and sailed, dressed in full safety gear , under a permanent thunderstorm, torrential rain and strong NE winds for the full 10 day passage.. .. Hurricanes have funny tracks. In 1996 sailing from St Johns Newfoundland to the Netherlands in early Oct. we rode out Hurricane Isidore SW of the Azores. It was after a few nasty Oct trips that God finally poked his head out from the force ten clouds, cupped his hands and shouted THANKSGIVING YOU BONEHEAD...ever since I have preferred to wait until Turkey time for predictable , Broad reaching thru life, crossings. Oh and what to bring...I suggest David Burch's book EMERCENCY NAVIGIGATION, Pathfinding techniques for the prudent and inquisitive mariner. He teaches you how to navigate across oceans with only your hands and eyes. Blank off the nav station for the Mates watch and force him to work his way across with Burchs book. Might as well pick up David Lewis's....We The Navigators ...while your at it. And also remember that the curse of a west bound trip is the burning sun in your eyes , day after day ,as you steer the boat. We have simple UV shades for the Wheelhouse windows. Boats roll on transatlantics...hard to sleep when your rolling back and forth in your bunk...best to pack a couple inflatable beach Lielow mats to slip under your bunk to keep you from rolling around.
Henning
Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:50 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


English Andy wrote:
Rod, if you would like to have a full and frank discussion via email with an ex-Royal Navy Submarine Navigator with 30 years of seafaring experience, please send you email address to yacht_captain@live.com. Hope to hear from you soon.....


What would a Pommie submariner know about weather routing? "Oh dear, my tea bag is sloshing in my tea, we better dive the boat..."

Henning
Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:56 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


rodsteel wrote:

I am curious what one should be prepared to experience on a 40m to 60m Motor Yacht when crossing from Monaco to Miami in early October? e.g., preparation, weather, route, duration, duties of various crew members, common 'troubles", etc.

Early October you should be prepared to experience everything from a mild Stbd Quartering condition to a Hurricane passing over you. Most likely you'll have a mild to moderate sled run, but you're not out of the realm of possibility of having a major late season cyclonic storm in your area of operations. Routing doesn't really matter much as far as that is concerned, especially with late season storms, there are tracks all through the Atlantic.

I always try to have 6 competent helmsmen for in case the weather gets tough. When it gets big, autopilots aren't really that good, so you need someone to hand steer the boat, and you can't do a proper job of it for more than an hour at a time. 6 competent helmsmen allows you to run 3 watches of 2. watches are 4 on 8 off and the watch standers swap the helm hourly or more frequently if it is a physically heavy boat to drive.  This allows accurate hand steering for multiple day while avoiding fatigue issues and the mistakes/accidents that they lead to.

junior
Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:49 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


What is the fuel range and daily run of your motoryacht ? On this sailing yacht I quote the owner 200 miles per day for favorable weather trips. At present we are close reaching in a force 5 at 10 knots...a typical day. Inside this 200 miles day average we carry 500 miles of fuel to maneuver between weather patterns and power thru holes. A problem for a sailing yacht crossing in Oct is that if you burn fuel in transition zones you might not have the backup fuel range to outmaneuver a tropical low. Oh and Henning, sailboats are virtually submarines... Green water is flooding the decks today... just picked a handful of sardines out of the steering cockpit scuppers and hour ago . Great BBQ'd when fresh. ..... and on transatlantics bring a bucket of bay leaves for cooking tuna and a bag of Fennel root and rock salt for baking Dorado.
14Freedom
Posted: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:08 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


rodsteel,
With all your other posts I thought you were a Master Mariner.
Range of the M/Y is critical, crew duties underway is discussed and understood with experienced crew before departure (no backpackers) and weather routing is a great tool.
In case anyone forgot, The Perfect Storm was in late October.
My advice, get the owner(s) to pony up the bucks, make sure insurance is covered and transport on Dockwise. Saves wear and tear and crew is happy...(except for the Engineer).
ATB-
The Slacker

English Andy
Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:12 AM
Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 93


What would a Pommie submariner know about weather routing? "Oh dear, my tea bag is sloshing in my tea, we better dive the boat..." Henning, I possess a Master's Degree in Oceanography and Metrology, and then spent 12 years living underwater! Succinctly, where do you think weather patterns come from, such as Tropical Storms and Hurricanes etc, etc, etc.... UM!?!?! Therefore, may I kindly suggest you comment on something you know alot more about ... like working in oilfields and let the professionals take charge of Yachts!
Henning
Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:39 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Dude, I was joking, note the freakin smilie. I guess the Royal Navy frowns on having a sense of humour. If you actually think you do this better than me, you're welcome to prove it. Name the nautical challenge, and I'll be there.

BTW, captains from the navies usually don't last their first hitch in the oilfield, they never learned the endurance close quarters boat handling precision required. They all thought that being able to do an unrep and land on a dock qualified them.

Cap'n C
Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:56 PM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


Absolute dribble, Henning! Apparently you have never heard about RAS operations underway. Surface commanders do this routinely. You try to put your self 38-42 yards abream a tanker 5 times your size in 12 knots, pass/shoot the painter line, haul in the hose and coupling and stay on station for three hours, yanking the helm like crazy iot avoid being sucked in. Seastate 5, night time, helmsman, manual control of the engines, and radio silence. If you don't succeed you will run out of fuel inn less than 36 hours. Towing approaches in gales, launching and retreiving workboats in seastate 6, salvage/diving ops etc. I have done oilfields the North Sea basin/Norwegian Sea/Barents Sea and albeit some hefty shiphandling on/off DP in bad WX it doesn't even come close to the risks and seamanship involved with some navy ops. Do not for one minute think that the supply business is the top game in shiphandling. It just one of them. 

G. Threepwood
Posted: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 11:43 PM
Joined: 31/07/2009
Posts: 28


Don't diss things you do not understand. Clearly you have little/no understanding of the navies and what and how they do things.Smugness is unbecoming, even if it is half jokingly.

Henning
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 4:38 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Cap'n C wrote:
Absolute dribble, Henning! Apparently you have never heard about RAS operations underway. Surface commanders do this routinely. You try to put your self 38-42 yards abream a tanker 5 times your size in 12 knots, pass/shoot the painter line, haul in the hose and coupling and stay on station for three hours, yanking the helm like crazy iot avoid being sucked in. Seastate 5, night time, helmsman, manual control of the engines, and radio silence. If you don't succeed you will run out of fuel inn less than 36 hours. Towing approaches in gales, launching and retreiving workboats in seastate 6, salvage/diving ops etc. I have done oilfields the North Sea basin/Norwegian Sea/Barents Sea and albeit some hefty shiphandling on/off DP in bad WX it doesn't even come close to the risks and seamanship involved with some navy ops. Do not for one minute think that the supply business is the top game in shiphandling. It just one of them. 

That's unrep, standard lightering work, you're doing it with way on and both vessels are being effected by the same wind and current and 38-42 yards is a hell of a long way. Now, pull up to a rig, stick 2/3rds of your vessel underneath it between legs with 25 feet (not yards) of clearance on each side with a current and wind and seas off your side and hold it still there for an hour or more as load after load of pipe gets craned off the deck. If you mess up, you get the guys rigging the loads killed, stick a load of pipe through the wheelhouse, or even break the rig (That is why the USCG started issuing the 6000GT OSV ticket and writing vessel specific endorsements for larger OSVs. The Unlimited guys including the ex Navy guys were doing to much damage and causing too many injuries). You think it's a simple job, go ahead and do it, they are hiring like mad right now and paying outrageous wages.

Cap'n C
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:34 AM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


Done that. Pls don't say more about RAS. Clearly you have no idea. Better be limited then??

junior
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 4:58 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Well Rod, sure hope you didn't decide to cross the Atlantic in early October. Have a look at Hurricane Otto. http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at2+shtml/143113.shtml?tswind120#contents. Southward burp of the Jet stream has Otto tracking eastward on the latitude of the straits of Gibraltar. The course between Gib and Florida looks like Disney Whitewater canyon, with SW gales in the NE belt . October is a bad month. Oh and Have a little sympathy for shipmates in the South of France....very powerful Gregale forecast for the weekend.
Rusty Wrench
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 5:58 PM
Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 207


Twin screw motor yacht; if you wish to avoid battling headlong through VERY bad weather and have limited range due to fuel capacity, you may 'go around' the bad weather by operating the two main engines in alternating periods 24hrs on/off. If equipped with gearbox aux. oil pumps or shaft brakes, you can run longer alternating times. This would sufficiently extend the fuel range and therefore allowing for a safe passage. Single screw sail boat; good luck.
Chief
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 7:08 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


Henning wrote:You think it's a simple job, go ahead and do it, they are hiring like mad right now and paying outrageous wages.


And why does this matter to people whose names don't end with an x? There are thousands of bubbas in the swamp who can leap out of a bateau and wrestle a 'gator too but so what?

 

A handful of people with a now obsolete and worthless OSV license invented to keep them as chattels of the mud boat mafia and who can't work anywhere else but the Gulf are the last bunch anyone in the international maritime field should idolize.


rodsteel
Posted: Friday, October 8, 2010 8:53 PM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 275


junior wrote:
Well Rod, sure hope you didn't decide to cross the Atlantic in early October. Have a look at Hurricane Otto...

Nope Junior, no such luck  - Although, I have to wonder what happened to the 50m M/V looking for the temp 2nd engineer back when I started this.
Pascal
Posted: Saturday, October 9, 2010 2:28 PM
Joined: 23/11/2008
Posts: 42


may i suggest renaming these forums "Egowalk"?

while the tabloidal stories about abused crew, grabby drunk captains and substance abusing promiscuous bimbos may be interesting to some, those constant p...g contest are pretty pathetic coming from "professional mariners".

Flame at will...
 

Francois Mitterand
Posted: Sunday, October 10, 2010 12:40 AM
Joined: 23/02/2009
Posts: 3


What a forum this has become! Only three lots of people on these boards:

- FIGJAM's like Henning
- Clueless job seekers
- Self-proclaimed demi-gods of the sailing scene (Junior)



 
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