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Residency for South African in Spain
Andre
Posted: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 9:47 PM
Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 4




Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:41 AM
Contact a Spanish lawyer???

Henning
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:47 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1053


You ask this on Dockwalk why? How many people here do you think would be in that position here?

Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:48 PM
Are there any people left in South Africa LOL. I'd steer clear of Palma, because there a plenty of unwritten rules and black money that cause people problems.
Kate
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:22 PM
Joined: 01/05/2008
Posts: 41


Andre removed his initial post but we feel it's a valid question -- as there are a lot of South Africans in the yachting industry and a lot of the industry in Palma -- so I'll try to re-post the question, what I can remember.
I believe the scenario was a South African is looking to possibly buy property in Spain and was concerned over rules of residency.
Is anyone else in this same situation who can advise?
Many thanks.
junior
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:26 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Hey, the post is gone ????? Hope you found a shipmate to pass on advice. Ive know heaps of SA's who have gone thru the process and bought property and secured residency in Palma. .Its doable, a working permit is more difficult.. Understand that residency and a working permit are two different beasts. When you get to Palma ask around, plenty of SA's to pass on advice..
junior
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 5:52 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Oh and some advice. After you speak to an SA in Palma....find an Argentine to speak to. They have the same problem as you, but they speak the language. After you have spoken to an Argentine, track done a Russian...Russians have the same problem and Know every loophole in the system. Plenty of Argies and Ruskies working the waterfront. Argies...paint and varnish gangs...Ruskies , engineering and bar restaurant gangs .
Andre
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:22 PM
Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 4


Hi

Thanks to the people who actually had a positive and helpful reply to my first posting, and Henning, the reason I put this on here is because there are so many South Africans in the industry and a lot of them buy property outside of SA. I was just trying to find out if someone has been through this process in Spain, and who did they use to handle all their legal issues, and what was involved.

Once again, all helpful info will be appreciated.
Thanks
 



Henning
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2010 10:57 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1053


Andre wrote:
Hi

Thanks to the people who actually had a positive and helpful reply to my first posting, and Henning, the reason I put this on here is because there are so many South Africans in the industry and a lot of them buy property outside of SA. I was just trying to find out if someone has been through this process in Spain, and who did they use to handle all their legal issues, and what was involved.

Once again, all helpful info will be appreciated.
Thanks
 
===============================================================================

Yeah, but your OP wasn't just about property, property is relatively easy, it was about a business as well, and that changes everything. Normally anywhere you go you need a "51%" partner or a good bit of money to put into a local bank account and you have to hire "X" amount of locals.... The person who said "A Spanish Lawyer" gave you the advice you needed unless you know Spanish well enough to read through the regulations, because just one mistake can cost you everything you have invested.




Anonymous
Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:46 PM
Hi Andre There are a few things involved but it is not easy getting permanent residence unless you are married to an EU member. I am a Safa living in Mallorca so feel free to e-mail me. E-mail me on the the following e-mail address and i will reply with my normal address. I dont post personal e-mail address on blogs or forums. reporthim@gmail.com
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, April 16, 2010 10:11 PM
just want to say here that junior is wrong! Spain makes no difference  between a permit to stay legally in Spain and a working permit! Both is covered by the "Tarjeta de resindecia" it serves as an ID too.

You should look for a "Gestoria" normally working with Lawyers, those Gesorias do all the paperwork.

You need to get your NIE(nummero de indentificacion extranjero) what is basically the same as the NIF(Nummero de identificacion fiscal) and this is the Spanish tax number.

Having money and employment(Captains letter of a foreign flagged yacht) would help there a lot!

I am EU-citizen and went to live in Spain in 1997 before the rules of the EU went into power in Spain and had to do it too! Nowadays I  don´t need the residencia anymore!!! If you are one of those SA´s with two passports(one EU one) you don´t need this either!!!!

To own property in Spain you don´t have to be a resident!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To open a Bankaccount(cuenta de no residente) you don´t need a residencia either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Palma you should find tons of Gestorias what can give you immidiat and corect information about the matter!!!

TO HENNING! don´t be mad just because for ones you cant give an advice - we still like your response to maritime matters! but I think we sailors should stick together no matter what!!!!!!!!!!

junior
Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:51 AM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Well Anonymous , Err Emmmmm..... unless South Africa quietly joined the European Union while I wasn't paying attention , SA's cant use the same paperwork to a acquire a working permit. The EU is a common market for labour. A German or Italian can instantly,with their signature on a piece of paper, start working. Non EU nationals simply can not arrive in Spain and look for work. If it were that easy the Spanish shoreline would sink two meters ,submerging all the tourists on the beach, under the weight of half a billion Chinese immigrants. Spain in no different from any other country in the world in that they issue working permits to foreign candidates who have a special skill not available in the domestic labour market or for work that is difficult and poorly paid which locals refuse. The typical example of this hard labour refused by Spaniards is the Agriculture business....thousands of 100 percent legal North Africans working under monster greenhouses in Almeria or on road works projects. The South Americans typically work as domestic household help to secure their permits. You will notice that South Africans , Americans , Russians, Australians, Kiwis..... typically purchase a restaurant, bar, hotel or start a business that employ locals to secure a permit. At present in Spain the economy is flat with 20 percent general unemployment and near 40 percent unemployment for young workers. Securing a working permit will be difficult. Securing residency when purchasing a retirement home is different, residency allows you to live with an outside income in your Spanish property. They simply ask you for proof of this outside income before granting residency. Rules and attitudes toward them change and immigration is a difficult subject ,best to seek professional advice. Also remember that Spain is divided into Autonomous regions and that these regions have influence on issuing work permits to suite their local situation. Read this article and you will understand that locals are beginning to take a negative view of foreigners in the Mallorca marine industry. http://www.diarioderegatas.es/?contenido_servicio_tabla=template_noticia_detalle&contenido_show_table_id=979&ln=sp A very powerful contact in Mallorca is Mrs Pat Bullock at the Network Group in Mallorca. She is very knowledgeable about all things concerning Spanish bureaucracy and has been solving yachty problems for 40 years . http://inglesuca.com/ Pat is not an Immigration lawyer but she is well versed in every question you have. Perhaps give Home Finders in Mallorca call. http://www.homefindermallorca.com/ they are pretty streetwise when dealing with yachties who purchase property in mallorca. Best to contact these people while you are still in SA so that you can begin to gather necessary paperwork like bank references, police report etc. International yachty permanent residency and a working permit are more difficult. Yachties leave the country with the yachts. Not so easy to convince the immigration officials that you need permission to work and live in Spain when you are leaving the country. Oh and Henning is to pessimistic concerning Spain. I find the Spanish to be straight forward ,honest and the bureaucracy much more professional than countries like Italy or Greece. The Spanish don't cause trouble if you behave and don't cause trouble.. I just returned from Hacienda ,the government building housing the bureaucracy supervising VAT payment on foreign flagged yachts and was able to perform my task in less that ten minutes. In Greece I was locked to the dock, minus my passport and ships papers for days while they scratched their heads wondering what to do. In Italy you would have to meet in a dark pizzaria and have a private man to man conversation with Salvador down in Reggio Calabria.....
Andre
Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:32 PM
Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 4


Thanks for all the good replies, and Junior, thanks for all the contact info.

junior
Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:25 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


Id pass on names of SA,s who have actually done it, but this is inappropriate on a website .YOU must personally meet these people, gain their confidence and learn their lessons. What you contemplate is possible....get your act together and do it...... You will be surprised with how many SA's are at the top of the marine industry. The shipyard engineer , project manager at Astilleros Mallorca is SA. One thing a guy like me observes is that SA's are not just people passing by the yacht industry to make a quick buck and drink beer..they are typically in it for life.
Dave
Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:51 PM
Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 3


Hi all, seems a lot of crap and suppositions written by people who do not have any advice (or knowledge of the situation), but only want to critisize.

Yes, you can buy property in Mallorca as many many South Africans have done already. You need to Apply for a NIE number (basically an indentification number). You can do this through a lawyer (Gestor) which will cost around 200 euros or you can stand in the long lines yourself and fill out the forms (not advisable!). Once you have your NIE number you can purchase property in Spain no matter where you are from. Getting a mortgage is a whole differant issue


junior
Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:06 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1026


You can get a NIE number for free. Open a bank account. Skip the 200 euro. And Dave, if you secured a Spanish, European Union, working permit and are now paying into the Spanish social securty system , please pass on the name of the estate agent who did this for you .....
 
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