Welcome to the Dockwalk.com Forum

 

In order to post a comment in one of the forum topics, you must log in or sign up. Your display name will appear next to your posts unless you check the Post Anonymously box. When writing a post, please follow our forum guidelines. If you come across a post that you would like us to review, use the Report Post button. Please note the opinions shared in the forums do not necessarily reflect the views of Dockwalk.


RSS Feed Print
MCA...Why ?
Silversurfer
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 1:39 PM
Joined: 09/06/2009
Posts: 4


Hey fellow sailors, I just moved back to Aus. after sailing the med & carrib for 10 years, a pretty funny comment was made to me in a recent interview for a skippers pozzy that came up. Midway through the interview, the subject arose of tickets & qualifications etc. I hold all my aussie master and engineer tickets plus i thought i'd throw in my MCA tickets for good measure, the recruiting officer said 'what the hell is MCA, is that like the YMCA'.. ! ' very similar' i replied ' except the MCA are much better on stage'.. gotta laugh.. still cracks me up today.. happy & safe sailing guys
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:29 PM
I guess the outfits would be different(monkeysuit, overalls, chef coat, etc, ) but yeah, I think it could work. Too funny!
Ripped off again
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 5:46 PM
Joined: 02/11/2009
Posts: 79


Exactly who are the MCA; it’s a very small and isolated bubble that the yacht licensing system exists within. Outside of yachting who really cares about the MCA, LY2 and the pomp and ceremony that comes with the Red Ensign.
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:20 AM
Ha.. thats brilliant ! gives a whole new meaning to having to go to the YMCA to do your orals.. timeless The MCA Y ?
BIGYELLOWDUMPERTRUCK
Posted: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:19 PM
Joined: 01/08/2008
Posts: 14


who cares outside of yachting.....very small minded. I think you'll find the United Kingdom DFT as well as the IMO (if you know who they are) infact care about who the MCA are not to mention the entire merchant and fishing fleet sailing under the red ensign. sounds to me that the aussie mob should be wearing the cowboy outfits and playing YMCA
Kaj
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:24 AM
Joined: 05/08/2008
Posts: 83


Sadly this tale of the MCA vs Australian licences will never go away. For the records, it was the Australian Maritime Safety Authority or AMSA that lead the way for most countries well before the advent of STCW 95´qualifications came into the fore. Thge MCA originally after STCW 95´came into force, did a rather pathetic job of setting qualifications and exams to be able to get pieces of paper such as the deck Class 4 and the Y4 etc etc. Many supposedly "qualified" people however slipped through the net before the MCA realised the qualifications were well below par and easily achieveable. Fortunately for all concerned, the MCA did close that gaping hole, but have sadly consistantly and reluctantly neglected to accept anything from as far South as Australia or New Zealand for that matter. I still believe today and can back it up with all the Australian maritime courses, that the Australian licenses are better and more qualified than the current MCA ones despite being STCW 95´compliant. The Australian Class 4 for example is a Commercial license that goes into much more depth and are longer courses than on offer from the MCA.

Despite this, the silly "we´re better than you" attitude is still very much alive and kicking in the MCA camp. It´s high time the stiff upper lip got dropped and that they acknowledge themsleves that the MCA are simply not necessarily the best around but another good alternative to others out there in the global maritime training world.

Capt Kaj


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:57 PM
Well said Kaj, i remember holding an STCW 79 issued by AMSA, the Aussie courses a far more intense, but not recognized .. bizarre ? did the MCA have the STCW 79 ? for sure not for the white boat industry which was without doubt run by a bunch of cowboys , but i guess you gotta comply with whatever flag you're sailing, definitely the MCA try to hold an elitest position, but thats common for the english class system, its in there blood. As for the big yellow dump the IMO have done nothing to try to make any sort of effort with international ticketing. but back to the original post, yeh i find it hilarious the Aussies view the MCA as a joke
Chief
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:47 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"... not to mention the entire merchant and fishing fleet sailing under the red ensign."

For which service an MCA yacht license is not worth the paper it's printed on and that my license challenged maritime pretender was the point.

Powerabout
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:04 PM
Joined: 22/11/2009
Posts: 14


I guess the confusing part for overseas countrys is that the MCA hands out both STCW 95 CoC's and mickey mouse yacht ones. OZ only has one STCW 95 ticket, same like ths US, the Unlimited Master.
Chief
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:07 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


" OZ only has one STCW 95 ticket, same like ths US, the Unlimited Master."

If you are trying to say the US has only one STCW compliant license and that one is the unlimited master, you are seriously confused.

Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:14 PM
Uhh hello STCW 95 comes in many forms under many flags.. to say Oz & U.S only has one ticket is mildly ignorant. For sure there is only one basic safety training STCW ticket but there are multiple endorsments on all tickets from 80GT to 3000 GT to unlimited..and this is where it all becomes a nightmare due to different flags having different rules, and this is why the IMO is far from international.. think about it we have all done the sea time in a multitude of different vessels and in different waters.. why is it not black and white but eterniley grey.. MONEY ! research & think before you hit the post button
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:17 PM

I think Powerabout may have meant that the USCG and AMSA only do merchant tickets, not yacht and merchant.

Question: The MCA issues CeCs for USCG tickets; the candidate only needs to take UK law module as well as take an oral exam if their tickets are under the unlimited level, but what's the deal with AMSA tickets? They comply to STCW95 so most flag states around the world issue equivalencies. Is it true the MCA will not issue a CeC for AMSA tickets and candidate has to undertake all the modules?

If that is true then what's the logic behind that?


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:28 PM
Yep , the sad truth is all Aussies have to start from scratch, back to the bottom of the rung ,engineers, deck, officers ! like some sort of pathetic schoolboy punishment
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:46 PM

But why? It's harder to get your AMSA ticket than MCA. Is this some political debacle? If the AMSA endorsements meet STCW95, then can the MCA legally not recognize them? Isn't this why we have the IMO?


steelbeach
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:27 PM
Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 7


Chief used a great word to describe the scene "confused". Seems as though a U.S. license is worthless on the docks of Ft. Lauderdale or Miami these last few years. Over the course of time working between commercial and yachting my papers were always accepted and respected. During the nineties found myself competing with porfolios issued by vanuato-red ensign-panama- and a few others beyond my aquaintance. The one issued by Vanuato was the most ornate paper ever and granted the purchaser authority over all seas in the way of a franchise only Columbus would have been issued !


Cap'n C
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:52 PM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


The MCA recognizes both Aussie tickets, SA tickets and US tickets on face value, ref http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-home/shipsandcargoes/mcga-shipsregsandguidance/marinenotices/mcga-mnotice.htm?textobjid=7E9918FC4C47FE90. Take a look at annex 1, the only extra that US needs is an ENG 1 in addition (apparently the Brits do not trust Yankee docs for some outlandish reason). These are all are nations that comply with IMO/STCW standards of training and are on the so called white list. Sad thing though is that it applies only for merchant/fishing tickets. The yacht tickets are not on any white list since there are a plethora of different tickets and legislation around the world, no international standard in place. And since there is no international accord on leisure tickets, the MCA and other national agencies will have to, and reserve the right to on individual and/or pro rata basis negate any other leisure license that is not of their own making. However the MCA has considerable pull internationally, and many flags of convenience have modeled their yacht/leisure legislation on the MCA model. My advice will be to skip the yachting tickets completely and go for a merchant ticket, then all avenues are open. The yacht ticket, be it aussi, sa or brit is a training establishment racket that will eventually bleed you dry, only to leave you pretty much boxed in. Listen to Chief, there are some savvy advice there!
Chief
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 4:54 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"If the AMSA endorsements meet STCW95, then can the MCA legally not recognize them?"

 

If I had an unlimited commercial AMSA ticket and had no desire or need to work on a UK flagged vessel I wouldn't waste the time or money to obtain an MCA CeC. Apply for a flag state endorsement and be done with it. Mariners with real licenses don't have to play the MCA game unless they want to work on a UK flagged vessel and there aren't enough of them around that not having a CeC is going to hurt their employment opportunities.

It is a shame to see so many people with real licenses spending time and money chasing a yacht limited ticket just because the people asking for them don't have a clue.

 


Cap'n C
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 5:44 PM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


The MCA deals with "proper" licenses in the same way that any other national agency does. They do however require that you sit for UKLAP exams or take a 4 day course (business and law), nothing strange, discriminatory, many other nations also require some for of introduction to their admin legislation such as repatriation, ILO, hseq, PandE etc. For me with a "white list" ticket it was done in four days, a symbolic credit card payment, two "mug shots" and a nice shiny booklet arrived in the mail, lions and all on the front page! If you come running to the MCA office with a 200t yachtmaster aussie ticket from God knows what kind of training establishment, some kangaroos on the front of the booklet and when you look inside it says "recreational" or "leisure" and with some limitations that are not found in the MCA nomenclature, as an MCA official I would break out my biggest "DENIED" stamp forthwith. I suspect any sane USCG would do the same, be it lions, kangaroos, springboks or f.... reindeers on the shiny booklet for that matter. Now turn it around and ask your self if you were an AMSA official, would you recognize a shiny booklet with some official looking stuff saying it is valid for "near coastal", "mate unlimited (non comercial)", "pleasure craft" or the like from a nation on the other side of the globe? First thing you gotta do is break out the white list, then look up if there are some bilateral agreements and perhaps make an individual assessment based on researching the specific case. When it comes to the aussie vs brit thing it is pretty much a simple thing, they have not made a bilateral agreement on yachting tickets. It goes both ways. It has nothing to do with which one is the better or more easily obtained. It is simply that leisure/pleasure/yacht is not internationally regulated.
Cap'n C
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:33 PM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


And more over, the IMO permanent reps in London (ca 250 internationals) deals with "proper" licenses. The yachting industry is a side show and accordingly they let "Side show Bobs" run it. And there are minimum training and education standards in force, hence pretty rigid STCW regs on the merchant/fishing side of things. And if one wants to have the freedom of sailing under other nations flags one bloody well has to accept their requirements! Stop whining about it and do it their way however backward it may seem. It is not a human right, it is actually another nation letting you fly their flag. The MCA might seem elitist, but I think its the other way around, they have been accepting a lot of dodgy things iot keep the yachting industry afloat and under red ensigns. Don't forget, they started it one odd century ago. All other "yacht licenses" are arguably offshoots of the MCA (perhaps with the exception of the US, which understandably have long standing maritime issues with their former overlords and opted for another system! I think the Brits sacked Wash. DC in 1812, not a delicate diplomatic touch)!
Salvador
Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:34 PM
Joined: 22/07/2009
Posts: 97


        "However the MCA has considerable pull internationally, and many flags of convenience have modeled their yacht/leisure legislation on the MCA model. My advice will be to skip the yachting tickets completely and go for a merchant ticket, then all avenues are open. The yacht ticket, be it aussi, sa or brit is a training establishment racket that will eventually bleed you dry, only to leave you pretty much boxed in. Listen to Chief, there are some savvy advice there!"

  The Portuguese system is very similar to the British one, regarding leisure tickets. As I moved in my studies and preogressed in class to find out that the saying in the back of the card " Any yacht to any distance" Translates  "up to 30 m yachts to any distance".

 The danger, from my point of view, is that, you can be out of a job suddenly, only based in leisure yacht tickets. And , if you follow  the merchant navi route of licencing, you'll allways have a job.

 I recently heard there's a need of 30 000 Captains in the merchant navi....

Maybe a lie, maybe not,  


Powerabout
Posted: Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:06 PM
Joined: 22/11/2009
Posts: 14


Whilst OZ has master 5,4,3,2 those ticket will not be recognised by anybody as they are not STCW95 compliant. The US is the same thats why the article here was saying they are having a big shake up..why... to be stcw compliant. All countrys must recognise each others stcw tickets. IF you are talking 80-500 tonnes stuff I am ignoring this as those tickets are local trade, near coastal only and were basically invented to get all the fisherman compliant. There's only 1st officer (Capt), 2nd off, ( mate) both either 3000 or unlimited and 3rd officer, (2nd mate). I've never seen a (foreign going)vessel manning certificate with anything else on it except the tickets mentioned above. Some flag states run a 3rd mate, which is a second mate waiting for promotion but has done the same course. Most of our vessels are Cyprus flagged and I have never seen them refuse a ticket of just about any flag state you can think of. We do have US and Oz crew but only masters. The UK has invented the 200t yacht thing so they have one YACHT ticket that they say is STCW 95 compliant...like to see you get a job on a commercial vessel with that assuming you didnt want to be the messman. Just go and have a look at the flag states web sites for the courses and seatime. Every one I have looked at ( in English) all have the same tickets. Oz and the US being the odd couple. I feel sorry for my fellow country men ( ozzies) as many have done quality sea time and classroom time. Until they make it clear to all crew you are either gaining a local trade ticket or foreign going I think they are taking the piss. For those of you without stcw tickets several countries will let you take their orals for their tickets as you would have the required sea time on the required vessels. This is how I see it..please correct me if I'm wrong.
Cap'n C
Posted: Sunday, January 24, 2010 6:41 PM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


You've got the gist of it. Dunno the Aussie system, but I do know that the MCA recognizes the tickets if they are the normal commercial garden variety, be it master unlimited, 1stoff unlimited or oow unlimited. If there are some tonnage limitations such as 3000t on the master ticket, the MCA accept that to, and will put that limitation on the CeC. But it has to be commercial, no yachting/leisure/pleasure thing. There is no international accord on training standards for these licenses. Just because you need basic firefighting and safety at sea (IMO 60) doesn't mean the ticket is STCW compliant. It only means that you can work at sea as an unskilled seaman. Compliancy comes from the training and education standards imposed by IMO. They stipulate content and how many hours the curriculum requires, such as stability/loading/math/celestial/terrestrial/navigation/physics/mechanics/calculus/hydrodynamics/ship construction/oceanography/radar theory/ARPA/AIS/meteorolgy/instruments/radio comms etc. That stipulates at least 2 years of full time studies after secondary school, normally a 3 year college course. In no way will IMO participant nations grant full licenses to shortcuts such as the MCA yacht licenses, that takes about 16-20 weeks of course modules, cut to the bone to cater for only pleasure craft. It doesn't really matter how much sea time you have with a yachting ticket, you simply do not have the education or training to convert this into something that is on any white list (white lists are issued by all flagstates and it is a recognition of equivalent standards of training and education from other nations). Good news is that with a commercial ticket, yacht sea time is valid. Second good news is that most nations have a system in place that you can build up to a commercial ticket doing modules during your career (such as the NVQ's of Britain). But it isn't a shortcut. You get the same as going to maritime college, and racking up seatime. Know a lot of brits that started as AB's on commercial ferries etc and are now cramming for their NVQ's to get the OOW unlimited (commercial) while working. STCW95 is a whole lot more than a couple of safety courses, it's the whole curriculum of training and educating seagoing officers. A yachting ticket, even though it is valid for yachts up to 3000t is not even close to meeting the STCW95 standards as it lacks about 60 to 70 weeks of good ole fashioned classroom teaching. And STCW standards are the lowest standards IMO nations could agree upon, lowest common denominator! Don't feel blue if the MCA or AMSA or USCG does not recognize your yachtmaster 200t from down under or over yonder or whatever, it is a national non commercial leisure ticket and a far cry from STCW reqs, no matter how many modules and courses you have been taking.
Chief
Posted: Monday, January 25, 2010 11:09 AM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"A yachting ticket, even though it is valid for yachts up to 3000t is not even close to meeting the STCW95 standards as it lacks about 60 to 70 weeks of good ole fashioned classroom teaching."

Very well stated, Cap'n C. That applies as well to the USCG limited licenses. Fortunately, the new revisions to the licensing scheme will bring these into compliance with international standards and remove the stigma they have brought to that part of the commercial maritime world. I have seen many 1600 ton masters who were the biggest fish in the oil field pond come onboard a containership or tanker and find out that they could only serve as an AB. It's not because they haven't had years of steering a boat, or are not good people, it's because they haven't had adequate training at the level determined by generations of seafaring as the minimum required for safe operation .

The sad part of this whole issue comes from the fact that those who bought a ticket to the MCA dog and pony show have to believe it is a valid program and has value beyond the microscopic venue of "commercial" yachting. The MCA and its street corner dealers have hijacked the terminology of the maritime industry to perpetuate and promote a flawed licensing scheme. Just what is a "commercially endorsed" yacht license? It does not permit the holder to serve on a commercial vessel that carries passengers or cargo for hire, it only allows the untrained to serve on a vessel carrying "guests" who, under the MCA system, have less right to a crew that meets professional training standards than is required to transport a box of scrap metal between the same ports.

That the IMO has allowed the MCA to append the STCW rating codes to yacht licenses does a disservice to its own efforts to improve maritime safety through standardization of training. Declaring a yacht limited license that requires virtually no sea time and no real training or professional evaluation as having the same management or operational level code as an unlimited license borders on fraud. It provides innocent "guests" and unknowing owners with a false sense of security and generally cheapens the value of licenses that require years of formal training and seagoing experience to earn.

Cap'n C
Posted: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:31 PM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


"Fortunately, the new revisions to the licensing scheme will bring these into compliance with international standards"; by this you mean "raising the bar" or letting the same edu/training "slip thru the net"? I hope it will mean the former! I have to defend the MCA though! On the commercial side they do like any other modern state, conforming to int. standards. It's the yachting "dog and pony" show that seems to be the core of this debacle. The MCA does not "endorse" yachting tickets as STWC compliant, they only let these cardholders drive leisure craft under red ensigns, a completely national (and overseas territories) endeavour. That other nations have to some extent copied this sideshow doesn't mean it is an international affair. The "training establishments" are the ones who propagate this as professional and stick STWC compliant on the course modules (and they are when it comes to safety at sea, medic in charge, arpa etc). But the complete training program with all the modules are not. You end up with 4-5 professional certificates, and a bunch of course modules that are only valid for that particular flag state. On this very webpage you get ads for "professional" yacht training be it SA, Aus or Med. It is a racket. And they don't tell you the truth about their training and the possibilities/restrictions with this thing. And the LY2 code has been emulated by a lot of flag states that really do not want to make their own, or regulate the business. LY2 is also accepted as minimum standard of construction by LLoyds, Bureau Veritas etc and thus insurable. But the LY2 specifically states no more than 12 "guests", actually no paying costumers! If/when a none red ensign flag state detains a megayacht with a 3000t capt and an LY2 code certificate for fiscal reasons because they are making and marketing business with paying customers out of their ports I think the game is up for the yachting licenses on ships bigger than 500t. A lot of nations have the 500t coastal to keep coastal trade going, fishing activity etc. Just think about pretty influential IMO nations like the Philippines, Greece, Norway and more that would need to put half their maritime community back to school! I saw in the news that down in Texas two barges slammed into a tanker and tore a hole, oil spill galore. With a shiny white 1500t yacht doing the same thing I think there would be a lot of angry Texans asking for the yachtmaster's head on a plate, and quite possibly putting the spotlight on the edu/training requirements of that particular license. As I see it, the MCA/Yachtmaster/RYA/PYA and all their derivatives does not constitute a sustainable development. There will be a demand for higher training, recent history tells us this!
Chief
Posted: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:57 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"Fortunately, the new revisions to the licensing scheme will bring these into compliance with international standards"; by this you mean "raising the bar" or letting the same edu/training "slip thru the net"? "
 
I mean "raising the bar" by requiring a long list of competencies and evaluations to demonstrate through actual service onboard and/or formal training at an approved school.
 
Unfortunately this will stop a lot of good people from moving up because of the costs. The hawsepipe is getting very narrow these days and the only way to a license is quickly becoming limited to a nautical school or through a maritime union training scheme.
 
"The MCA does not "endorse" yachting tickets as STWC compliant ..."
 
Well, when I see a Y3 yacht engineer ticket carrying an STCW A-III/2 management level notation exactly the same as an unlimited chief engineer, and a 200 ton yacht master with 6 weeks at sea and a license prep course under his belt with the same notation as an unlimited master I seriously question how the MCA or the IMO can claim any credibility. If they want to pretend those licenses mean something the least they can do is change the notation to something that identifies those "licenses" for what they really are.

Cap'n C
Posted: Monday, January 25, 2010 4:06 PM
Joined: 29/04/2009
Posts: 37


Well, any Y1 to Y5 only applies to what the MCA calls "code vessel". It basically says that you can be top monkey in the technical department aboard a code vessel (LY2) as long as you've done 6 weeks of gruelling powerpoint shows. MCA further states and stresses that cargo and passenger handling is not part of the syllabus. When you read Y3 and some hokus pokus STCW code denoting a fraction of the code it means exactly that; 6 weeks of ppt, some STCW safety courses and a shiny booklet from UK with lions on the front saying that card holder didn't go to school, and cannot be trusted with anything else than a leisure/pleasure boat carrying a UK flag. Reading the MCA pages, there seems to be a major revision of the licensing system on the horizon, and however the outcome I think we can safely say that it will put more of a course load on the "yachtmasters" of this world and sooner or later we will come to a point where a 500t yacht ticket will cost more than a proper one!
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:01 AM

This sucks to hear but it sounds like information I have gathered. I have just done a comparitive between my licence done in Aus Master class 5 vs MCA Yachtmaster 200t. It is Crazy these courses that should be international.

When I joined my last yacht for a temp gig they treated me like a rookie who had never been on a boat before because I did not have my yachtmaster. I told them I had the sea time, experience and if needed I would go and get my MCA YM just to shut them up. The captain who is very MCA for life thinks that Masters 5,4,3 are hobby licences and not worth anything.

I have been involved with the marine industry working on boats professionally for 9 years and the kid from SA who was an accountant 6months ago now has a YM and knows everything?

Sadly, in yachting this is true. Its dissapointing as when comparing the courses, and having done them and now booked in for my YM the AMSA training is way more involved. I compared all the modules of training. YM = 11days vs Master class 5 = 22days, MCA 3000miles/50days vs 4500hours, radio MCA = VHF or higher vs Master class 5 = Marine radio operators of proficiencey HF/MF/VHF ect.... 

it is frustrating to think how many thousands i spent on my class 5 then to redo the same thing and spend another $3000 to do my YM just so i can work on a yacht for a few years then probably back to Aus or elsewhere in the world and maybe work on a commercial research/fishing/tug vessel or go home and run charters. 

Not sure what route to follow. I don't want to re-do each licence everytime I want an upgrade. without a job thee courses don't pay for themselves!

Also compartive courses in Australia vs USA... why are they so much more expensive?

IE STCW95 Aus= 1600 vs USA = $700? and Aus course is two days longer?


Zenith
Posted: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:42 AM
Joined: 28/04/2011
Posts: 59


 

I hold both an MCA Master (Unlimited) CoC and an AMSA Master (formerly Class 1) CoR. The oral examinations for both were identical and of a similar difficulty level in most respects, although I would say that the MCA were marginally tougher  with regards the legal aspects. However,  AMSA were much more careful when checking seatime and required Company Letters in a particular format rather than a mere sea service testimonial.  

I think the area where the MCA have been far too lax is with the Yachting licenses which have been dumbed down far too much. Although many of the guys coming through the yachting system generally have a lot more in the way of seamanship skills when they embark on the process, they are let down by the lack of credibility in some of the licenses and deserve more in depth knowledge in various areas of Law, Navigation, Stability and Management. (Just to clarify, I’m not questioning the standard of Commercial vs Yachting seafarers, just the system of training and examination) 

When considering flags, the Australian flag is incredibly small, they have few large ships on their register aside from a few old bulk carriers. Also AMSA appear to do very little in the way of managing their own ships, with the majority of surveying outsourced to Classification Societies. The Red Ensign fleet (UK and overseas dependants etc) is absolutely immense, and in tonnage terms completely shadows the Australian fleet. In terms of large yachts (3000gt), the Australian register has perhaps two? So we are comparing apples and oranges here. 

 


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:09 AM

hi all

does any one knows if one has done  chief mates unlimted from  mca uk , can he appear for Master unlimited orals only   at AMSA australia ,  or does he has to appear for both chief mate/masters again for  the full course ?????.


Zenith
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2013 3:27 PM
Joined: 28/04/2011
Posts: 59


If you have an MCA Chief Mate Unlimited then the best you can hope for is an AMSA Chief Mate Unlimited CoR (Certificate of Recognition) and you could only upgrade that to an AMSA Master CoR once you have an MCA Master (Unlimited) CoC. Both occasions would require an oral for the respective CoR at an AMSA Office and the sea time would need to meet AMSA requirements for the relevant ticket. 

  You could sit the full mates course in Australia and then get an Australian CoC and build your way up. 


 
 Average 5 out of 5