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repatriation following termination of contract
Jay
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 5:40 PM
Joined: 07/09/2008
Posts: 6


I work on a cayman flagged boat managed by a large well known company - currently in the US. I have been given notice to leave due to end of season cost cutting. My contract states that I will be repatriated at the end of my employment however my captain knows that i have no intention of returning to the UK and wish to remain where I am  to look for new work. My understanding in this situation is that I would normally get an open ticket which i could amend as i need. However he  wants me to sign away my right to repatriation unless i return to the UK immediately. Where do  I stand on this?

Ben Franklin
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 5:56 PM
Joined: 04/10/2009
Posts: 19


Fly back to the UK, take a holiday until the season is over here, then look for work in the Med. We can take care of things here.
Besides, your ticket was to fly back to the UK when your contract is over, that does not mean you can hang out and have a free ticket sitting around at your liesure. Which means if you choose to stay here and look for work, your not flying back to the UK, therefore you do not need a ticket. You have already given up your ticket by saying that you are staying here.

Chief
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 6:42 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"Where do  I stand on this?"

<BR>

 

Phone 954.761.2000 and tell them the whole story, they will get this sorted out right away.


 

 

 


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:12 PM
Ben Franklin is angry because his currency has been devalued, treat his outburst as you would the ramblings of any beaten man. Jay I'm not familiar with US rules but normally it would be unheard of for a ship to discharge 25 redundant Indonesian seaman on the Liverpool docks after a voyage, without proof that they are returning to their country of origin. You as a crew member are on the ships crew list and the only way to clear your name off the list is for you to leave the country. Open airline tickets ? In the Good Ole days it worked and I would always simply give the crew an open ticket then wish them well. Times have changed, Immigration is tighter and I would expect the captain or management company is simply interested in fulfilling US regulations. If your captain is a fair fellow he should be able to explain this to you. One of the hassles of being an International Yachty is all this flying back and forth nonsense. Your best to take a holiday then return fresh and new... clear of your old yachts ships papers.
Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 8:10 PM
Make sure you explain that you are a foreign national seeking employmentin the U.S, when you call the above #, so thoughtfully furnished by "chief", it's the Ft. Lauderdale office of immigration. If you have a middle eastern passport and some diagrams on how to make explosive devices wrapped in a kilo of coke, this should expedite things for you.
Chief
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 8:17 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"I'm not familiar with US rules but ... "  Then don't offer advice.   

.                                                                          

We are not talking about Indonesian merchant seamen in Liverpool. We are probably talking about a yachtie with a B1/B2 visa in an American port. The yacht is obligated to repartriate, that does not mean physically transport a former crewmember to the aircraft. It means provide the means to enable that crewman to return to the place of engagement or other agreed location. If that crewman has a valid visa or other status that would allow that person to remain legally in the country of discharge then a payoff which includes the cost of transportation sufficient to return to the place of engagement or other agreed location is all that is required to fulfill the crew agreement. The captain has no right to deny repatriation regardless of the crewman's intent in such a situation. The captain does not have the authority to personally decide to deport a crewmember who has a legal right to remain in the country of discharge, nor can he deny the cost of repatriation to the agreed destination, and/or as  required by international law.


Jay
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 11:40 PM
Joined: 07/09/2008
Posts: 6


thanks chief - that's exactly what i was thinking. am interested to see Ben's opinion if hes around?

Ben Franklin
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 12:44 AM
Joined: 04/10/2009
Posts: 19


Ben here as requested I would think that if you are joining a vessel as a foreign national, you have to change your B1/B2 to state that you are no longer on holiday, but now a crew member. In order to do so, you first have to clear your old B1/B2 to state that you are no longer part of your last vessel. In order to do that you need to leave the country. If you just hop on another boat, the next time you pull in with the new boat, they can see that you never cleared, therefore you have violated the trust you had been given to obtain a B1/B2 that you would not look for work.
Plain and simple folks, a B1/B2 DOES NOT give you the right to walk the docks, do interviews or in any other way, shape or form look for a job while your in the US. The B1/B2 is for extended holidays, business persons who are in and out of the country, and CURRENT crew members flying in to meet their boat or coming in on a port of call.
Therefore, Jay, it would be morally proper of one's self to obey the law, and take the ticket home, then fly back. Your Visa will have cleared through properly, and you won't jeopardise the privilege of being granted it in the first place. 
 I don't care were your from, who you are, what your job or education is. Every country has it's rules and laws for their reasons, whether or not you agree with them. It is easier for everyone in the long run, because if you don't follow, more rules and laws get imposed. I really don't want to see the ICE officers actually patrolling the Boat Show, or have the Coast Guard boarding every single vessel that comes in the harbour. We are not forced to follow the law, but we are TRUSTED to do so. And if people are the professionals that they claim they are in this industry, then we should act like it and obey what is in front of us. If you don't like the rules of one place, you can go somewhere else, or put in the effort to become a citizen of place of your choosing, and run for office and make a difference that way.



MatrixLloyd.com
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:48 AM
Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 52


Hi Jay. Thanks for your post. Quite simply, repatriated means sent back to your home country: in your case, the UK. If your contract states that you ‘will’ be repatriated, it means that your employer will provide you with a flight to the UK. There’s no obligation for you to use it (and if you’re not going to use it they may thank you for telling them this rather than waste money on the single, non-refundable plane ticket) but it doesn’t mean you have to take such a flight. What it doesn’t extend to an open ticket to a destination of your choice, for your convenience. If you wanted that, you should have negotiated this into your contract. But at least you had a contract... some idiots still don't see one as essential. Benjamin Maltby. MatrixLloyd.
14Freedom
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:44 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155





"I work on a cayman flagged boat managed by a large well known company - currently in the US. I have been given notice to leave due to end of season cost cutting. My contract states that I will be repatriated at the end of my employment however my captain knows that i have no intention of returning to the UK and wish to remain where I am  to look for new work."

Are you kidding me???...and that goes to Chief too. Fly home. Contract should stipulate a return ticket from where you joined the vessel from. Let me guess...UK?

Let me guess again...the FLIBS is about to start and the UK stinks at this point so you want to use you B1/B2 as you are now on "holiday" until your main squeeze (who happens to be American) agrees to marry you for a few$$$.

This is EXACTLY THE CRAP I POSTED UNDER...  EEOC is looking.

If South Africa had stuff going on I'd be there, properly of course.

ATB-
Dan




Jay
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 10:14 PM
Joined: 07/09/2008
Posts: 6


At last - an opinion i value! Thanks for your time Benjamin

Chief
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 11:30 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


“Contract should stipulate a return ticket from where you joined the vessel from.” International law says the crewmember will be repatriated to the place of engagement or any other place agreed upon. It really is that simple. Not even a superstar yacht captain can alter that reality. “Let me guess again...the FLIBS is about to start and the UK stinks at this point so you want to use you B1/B2 as you are now on ‘holiday’ until your main squeeze (who happens to be American) agrees to marry you for a few$$$.” Your guesses are irrelevant. If the poster has a right to remain in the country he or she is perfectly within rights to stay for the duration allowed. Regardless of what you, I, or anyone else (aside from CBP of course) think about it, if the contract said repatriation to X, that is what he/she is entitled to receive. If the separation is a result of being fired for cause then the cost of repatriation to the placed of engagementmay be deducted from the payoff, otherwise it is on the boat’s account. There is nothing that says repatriation must occur within so many hours or days. That part of the process is up to the discharged seafarer and the port state. Get over it man, the law is a good one, it protects you as much as it offends your xenophobic sensitivities.
14Freedom
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 12:40 AM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


To all who missed the post before this...deleted by Moderator without notice.
Thanks Chief,
Xenophobic sensitivities? That cracks me up too...America is a country that welcomes everyone and again with the proper protocol.
My Dad is American with a UK background who flew for the RAF in WWII. My mom is Belgian who lived through the German occupation when she was a teen, finally leaving her "resident alien" behind in 1980 after 24 years here.
I've traveled and lived in 44 countries on 4 continents.
Quote me if you like but do not ever say I have xenophopbic sensitivities.
I can take that personally but thicker skin is called for.
ATB-
DAN

Chief
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:02 AM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"America is a country that welcomes everyone and again with the proper protocol." Yes, and that is the point. If the crewmember leaves the yacht with a valid visa and is permitted to remain in this country as a tourist then you should welcome them. Unless you work for the CBP and have documentation to prove the poster is violating some statute, you are being xenophobic and narrow minded as well. If you are that worried about someone taking your job, follow them around with a camera and tape recorder to gather information you can take to CBP. You too can be a junior G-man. Otherwise, give it up, you are tilting at windmills.
14Freedom
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 2:23 AM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Hey Chief,
I would absolutely love to have a beer with you and Don Quixote.
Dan

Chief
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 3:38 AM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


I thnk Don is still in the Med but I would enjoy one if you're buying
Hazel Holtzhausen
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:20 PM
Joined: 28/10/2008
Posts: 1


Rules are rules, you entered the country under the boats name on a business visa. If you are no longer employed on the boat you have to leave the country as you are no longer employed on the boat, therefore no longer conducting business in the US. Even if he did give you an open ticket so that you can return home in your own time, which would be against the rules for the captain as he is suppsed to make sure you leave with immediate effect. You would still legally have to fly out of the country and reenter on your tourist portion of your visa, or if you were joining another boat straight away you are supposed to still leave the country and reenter with that boats papers. If you really don't want to leave get your ticket and see if you can change the date with the airline, it may only cost you a few hundred bucks. Of course then you hope you don't get caught Your captains only trying to follow the rules so his ass isn't on the line.
cdhezel
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 5:18 AM
Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 20


1-your Captain has a legal obligation to sign you off the crew . list to do that you must leave 2-your b1/2 visa is granted while you are on that crew list, once off your entry permit (not the visa) is no longer effective. you must leave. 3-Your Captain has an obligation not to burden the vessel with possible prosecution due to improper visa use by a person or persons whose visa condition is that they are crew on his vessel. you must leave 4- While you remain in the country with you entry permit linked to the vessel, the vessel is your sponsor, therefore any infringement of the law on your part (e.g. illegally seeking work) the Vessel and its master become liable, he may be prosecuted and vessel could be impounded ...you must leave 5- An open ticket is usualy considerably more expensive than a charter or last minute ticket, the Captain has the financial economics to consider........ what would you do????
Henning
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:46 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1052


You're a bit screwed. You can't have exactly what you want if he doesn't want to give it to you. He owes you to get you to the port he took you on at or wherever you both agreed to AT the end of your contract. This is a multifaceted obligation to deal with. I suspect you have a B1/B2 visa and a 30 or 90 day I-94 (unless you've been here several times in good standing, then it may be a year or more). The I-94 is tied to your entry with the boat, so technically, once you are signed off the log, you are to leave the country, although as long as you leave before the expiry of your I-94, you'll be ok with CBP. Do not violate the date on your I-94 and make sure that it gets returned to an immigrations officer before you leave. Now, obviously, you don't need to go to the UK to leave, a $129 round trip to the Bahamas will do just fine. However, the vessel is not obligated to allow you a vacation in country. Normally they would have, but things have chsnged since 9/11/2001. As a captain, I'll give you a ticket dated on your I-94 date and have you sign off the log that you asked for and agreed to those terms and agreed to be responsible for your own costs of subsistence. One thing though, tell me "Hey, I want to do a bit of travelling and tourism while I'm here, how about I go home at the end of my I-94?", DO NOT tell me "Hey, I really want to hang out and look for another job." Now you have made me an accomplice and as captain, I'll get in more trouble than you actually. I'm obligated to let you have liberty and there is no real defined upper limit to liberty. If CBP comes to me about you, I can say "Yeah, he wanted to go see the US so I gave him a roadmap with a bunch of good spots highlighted and a ticket home for the day his I-94 expired." Now I'm a nice guy, but don't ask me to do you a favor in such a way that it leaves me open to get burned. If there is a management company involved, they are much less likely to deviate from company policy. Basically, if you don't want to take the flight you are booked on, don't, but then it's on you to get out before your I-94 expires. They are not obligated to give you an open ticket, they are only obligated to get you a ticket home at the end of your employment. If you wanted something else, you should have stipulated it in the contract you sign on with. BTW, have you tried calling the management company and shmoozing whomever is in charge of this?
Chief
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:18 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


Jay, Now do you see why I provided the phone number? Call the people who stamp your papers, they will tell you if you can change to a tourist status and how to do it. They are the final arbiters of your situation. The law regarding repatriation is very clear and concise. No matter how much some yacht captain dislikes the idea of your hanging around, the owner still owes you the cost of repatriation. Period. If you can legally stay you can stay. What you do while you legally stay is none of your former captain's business. Period. Just get a ticket (or the cash equivalent) to the place you were hired and leave it at that, you don't have to even talk to the amateur admiral. You are not here on a seaman's entry and you are not a prisoner, you have a B1/B2 and may have several options. I love the righteous indignation and self assured posturing of the captains who have self-appointed themselves as guardians of the borders and defenders of homeland sekurity. Go to the source for the information you need. If you can stay, you can stay, if you can't then you will know that you didn't leave because some sea lawyer chased you out.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 7:40 AM
Repatriation....yes. What you don't know is that the captain can take the cost of your repatriation out of your final paycheck to pay for it.....read the legislation , It is a book thicker than your simple mind and there are no pictures.....that is why he is the captain and you are the idiot seasonal crew requesting retarded demands.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 7:50 AM
Captains are bound by legal responsibilities that most crew don't understand....they make decisions on the owners behalf in the best interest of the owner. A good crew member understands this and takes nothing personally. It is all business. Do what you are told, listen intently and learn from the people who have many years more experience than you. If you can do this then you will never be in the situation we are discussing. If you follow these rules and still find yourself on the sidewalk....contract or not, the captain will still find a way to take care of you. If the captain fukces you over,then you will write a post to a publication declaring your situation and blaming everyone else for why you were fired. In the last few years everyone said it was a difficult time. Good crew were never without a job......think about it.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 7:53 AM
The problem with this site is that the people with the right answers dont respond to the real issues....they watch the rookies flounder....read the publications and you will never have to ask advice here !!
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:02 AM
AGAIN, REad t he IMO statute.....common practice commonly voiced throughout the industry is not sound, just or legal.
Chief
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 4:25 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


To the anonymous rocket scientist who posted:

 

“What you don't know is that the captain can take the cost of your repatriation out of your final paycheck to pay for it.....read the legislation …”

 

 

Please read the thread. On 08 October 2009  at 23:30 the following statement was posted: “If the separation is a result of being fired for cause then the cost of repatriation to the place of engagement may be deducted from the payoff, otherwise it is on the boat’s account.”

 

Before you get too excited about trashing anyone please make sure you know what you are talking about.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 10:49 PM
Chief , Well said. I have often wondered why junior crew always think they know better than the Captain! This is in part a large problem with what has happened to yachting . Either get legal or get out its that simple. I for one would not mind ICE patrolling the docks or the CG doing boardings of all vessels as they enter port! I remember back in the 90's Immigration would hit the boat yards and the wet backs would hit the water swimming! Again I want to say this loud and clear if you are not hear legally and are working I want you out, hell I'd even help pay to send you home personally just as I am sure alot of others who are here and legal to work would do!
Chief
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:30 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"I have often wondered why junior crew always think they know better than the Captain!"

 

I doubt if "always" is the case, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And, judging by some of the comments posted by the Sons of Magellen in this thread,  there may be good reason for junior crew to exhibit a bit of healthy skepticism about the knowledge and powers held by their (with apologies to Mr. Kim) - "supreme leader."


Henning
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:36 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1052


To quote another anonymous expert...."Repatriation....yes. What you don't know is that the captain can take the cost of your repatriation out of your final paycheck to pay for it.".................................................................................................................................... Only if you're jumping ship before the completion of the contract or are being dismissed for cause. If you have completed the contract satisfactorily or are being rotated home... then the return is on the vessel.
Chief
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:48 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


Is there an echo in here?
Marty
Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:21 PM
Joined: 15/08/2009
Posts: 8


Hi there Chief,
I notice like a lot of engineers, you like to have a bit of a dig at the captain. I liked the comment " amateur admiral" the most.
However, as quirky and insipid as they may be, you still work for one.
HAve a great day.
Marty
Captain

 
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