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EEOC is looking...
14Freedom
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 7:26 AM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Just to let you all know, I HAVE HAD IT WITH THIS "INDUSTRY"!
Just filed a complaint with the EEOC about hiring practices by crew agencies and yachts in the United States of America (foriegn flag or not). Sex. age and national origin are starters.
I have been denied in writing because I was not "female", was "American" and was "overqualified" as well as "too old...". Go figure.
With or against, you will hear about this.
With the kindest heart for all those who toil in this mud hole,
Dan



Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 3:47 PM
Well Dan, I think you have just opened up a BIG can of worms! I myself have been wondering how crew agents in the U.S could be so blatantly breaking U.S labor laws. If I advertise in the local paper for waitstaff for a restaurant, I cannot specify, age, gender, marital status, child(ren) status, not to mention weather or not they use tobacco products or alcohol in their off work hours. Yet, I have seen recruitment ads for crew specifying all of these things, including a stew job that wanted only applicants whom wear a size six uniform, were Scandinavian in heritage and were a minimum of 5'10 tall. How the Heck can they get away with this B.S????
Chief
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 4:36 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


Well guys, there is a simple solution to this problem ... just shut down all US crew hiring. No more American based agents, no more American crewmembers, no more problems for owners. See, wasn't that easy?

Be careful what you ask for.


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 4:42 PM
How about we just "get rid of the crew agents" part?
Chief
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 4:51 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"How about we just "get rid of the crew agents" part?"

<BR>

Sure, you can do that yourself. You have the power to completely eliminate them from your life. Don't call them, don't register online, don't look at their ads or websites and don't answer any calls from them.

<BR>

Isn't it amazing how much power you have over them? You are free! You can go apply wherever you want with whomever you wish, look like you want, ask for anything you want ... so what is the problem then?



Ben Franklin
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 5:49 PM
Joined: 04/10/2009
Posts: 19


How about ICE, and EEOC, the USCG and all the other agencies force the crew agents to shut down or open other sites? Force them to not have interviews or allow foreigner with local numbers unless filing with proper work visas. How about the authorites hack the computer systems and force off all persons posting that they are South African, Aussie, Brit, Kiwi, or anyone else for that matter saying they are here in Fort Lauderdale and ready to work. Or set up more sting ops and have people show up to boats for daywork or interviews and pick them up and deport them. How about limiting the time a boat can spend here, and requireing to prove that they hired the person from overseas and flew them here. No more foreigners walking the dock, looking for daywork, or even better, how about setting up security at the marinas like commercial ports, since all the Yachtmasters like to say that they have a commercialy endorsed license, let's treat the marinas like a commercial port, which means you only get in with a US Department of Homeland Security issued TWIC card, oh, what's that, you can't get a TWIC because your not American. awwww...

Oh, I got an even better idea... how about we gather all the American, USCG license holders, and we all fly together to Antibes or Monaco, or one of the other yacht places and work for less pay, drink their beer and complain, hang out on the docks and when we are dayworking pretend that we are regular grew, and tell anyone that dosn't sound like us that there are no positions available? I could use a vacation at the end of the season.

Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 11:29 PM
You know, I would be interested to hear what the guys at Matrix-Lloyd would have to say about this (hint-hint Dockwalk moderator). It is my understanding that unless a yacht is commercially registered and operated that it is considered an extension of the home and rules covering employment discrimination do not apply, they only apply to a business open to the general public. It may suck for those of us who are American and getting older, but I don't think any country will legislate who you have working in your home.
Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 2:28 AM

You, we need to start some kind of movement. Like Harrison Ford said, "An individual can't do it alone." And I can't stand the dude's acting. But he is right. You need to form a coalition...this issue with discrimination and illegal immigration [of which is your competition for jobs] will NEVER change...not by you, pathetic yacht owners from the states who tolerate this kind practice, or anyone else. It takes a large enough group of pissed off folks to get other people's attention.

I was in the same boat as you, I contacted the EEOC who shoved me along to the Florida State Comm. Same old song and dance. Alas, nada.

Dan, I'm sorry but no matter how fraudulent or discriminating these recruiters can be, they are not liable, and that is because they [all recruiting agencies except those like Crew Network which is worldwide] claim to be employed by less than 15 members.  Essentially you do not have a case.  The EEOC rarely involves themselves into these matters, the Florida State Comm [i.e. Linda Mathis and FSC Legal] has done diddly over complaints/claims in the past. I want to save you the trouble of never being responded or emailed back by these people, but I suspect you're going to do what I wanted to do...so good luck. Please email me at yachtsitting@aol.com if you need more info.


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 2:33 AM

discussion on b1/b2 on youtube.com/debisis. is it true that foreign yachties to the states can not re use there work visas from boat to boat?


Janine
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 4:29 PM
Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 392


Ben Maltby of Matrix Lloyd wrote a Hot Topic for Dockwalk.com about this topic:

http://www.dockwalk.com/Essentials/HotTopics.aspx?id=25816

Check it out.

14Freedom
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 5:09 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Hi To Jeanine,
We are not talking about "attractiveness" though I will say I do not think I've ever been discriminated against because of how I look.
We are talking about - age, race, sex, national origin, religion, etc.
I have always been a believer in the best person for the job but BLATANT discrimination just doesn't fly. Look at my screen name...but hiring laws exist for a reason. I don't care if you are foreign and are qualified...just follow the correct protocols for the country you are in or looking to work in. I wouldn't fly to Europe without the correct protocol in place and neither should foreign crew coming here on TOURIST visas be LOOKING for work. B1/B2 ARE TOURIST VISAS!!!
I also am concerned where another ANONYMOUS reply states that he believes we are an extension of household help. I beg to differ. 99% of yachts, regardless of flag, are owned by "corporations" and thereby should be hiring under corporate laws and in the US, regardless of what state it is incorporated in, must defer to FEDERAL law in hiring practices.
How about the yacht advertising for only "gay crew"? How about "under 30"? How about "no US due to insurance"?
I can name 3 prominent yacht owners (2 I have worked for and you all know these names)) that own 800 feet of yacht between them. All own or head US based companies and NOT ONE BOAT IS US FLAGGED!!! Tax laws?... of course! Foreign crew? You bet. But that's another issue...
I am looking at starting an on-line petition for US crew to implore our government to enforce what is already on the books and create and/or amend what is a huge loophole for all US crew.
I also note not as many responses from foreigners as there was in posts about how to get around US regs with your B1/B2 visas.
Word to the wise, I may never get another job in this business but I found a new calling. Time for US crew (to quote Bob Marley) ...Get up, stand up. Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up. Don't give up the fight.
Dan


Capt.Dave
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 5:54 PM
Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 20


What you are suggesting would drive A LOT of American yacht owners out of yachting. It would not create equitable jobs for Americans it would make less jobs for everyone in this industry. Though you are understandably frustrated, yachts are pleasure vessels not commercial boats. The wealthy do not need to own their yachts to be wealthy, in fact boats drain money from their owners. If you don't let yacht owners flag their yachts to suit their preferences, then the industry will shrivel up and die. If you don't let them hire who they want to hire, then they just won't hire anyone. These are personal possessions that do not stay put in any one nation. (And the reasons for flagging a boat in one nation versus another are far more complicated than taxes.) Be careful what you crusade for. What you are suggesting would be TERRIBLE for this industry and shows a real lack of understanding for the big picture.
14Freedom
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 6:33 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Hey Dave,
I stated that vessel registry/taxation is another issue. There are a myriad of reasons why US owners flag there vessels offshore and that is understood.
As far a the "big picture" goes, I've been in the biz for 20+ years. What I have seen is beyond belief. Crew hiring IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA falls under FEDERAL LAW.
Are vessels available for charter "commercial" vessels? If I have the cash I can charter it...Am I the "general public"? Do foreign flag vessels hire from offshore? Do foreign crew come to the US looking for work? Are wages and hiring being depressed because of this?...and do not give the the economics on it, I studied economics in college.
The fact of the matter is we, as US crew are getting screwed and no one is standing up.
And as far as anyone from Lloyds/Matrix, or any other lawyer for that matter, works for whom writes the check.
ATB-
Dan

Capt.Dave
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 8:45 PM
Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 20


Okay, let's just take a look at question number one. "Are vessels available for charter "commercial" vessels?" Not all of them, this is exactly why a lot of American Yacht owners go with a foreign flag. To register a US flagged vessel under a commercial registry (making it a commercial vessel under the law) it has to be SOLAS because the US does not recognize any other commercial registry. I have not done the homework, but I am going to guess that you can count on your fingers the number of private yachts that are SOLAS certified. It's ugly, expensive and not realistic for a pleasure vessel under 500grt and a reach even for those boats that meet the 500grt threashold. To make matters more complicated, to legally charter your vessel in the Med, it MUST be commercially registered. So in order for the American owner of let's say a 100-foot Azimut to be able to get a commercial registry, it has to be registered in a country which has a code which enables the owner to comply with a commerical code. Therefore, the US boat owner is forced to seek a foreign registry. I've worked for Americans who wanted to US Flag their boat, but had to go Marshall Islands for this reason. And once they had the flexibility to hire whomever they wanted, they always hired whoever was the best fit for them regardless of nationality. This is just the tip of a narly ice-burg. The subject is way too complicated to discuss here and I'm not the right person to explain it. Maybe someone more qualified than me will tackle the job because it's something crew should know about. FYBA usually holds all-day seminars on this stuff around this time of year. I suggest if you really want to start a crusade that you look for one of these seminars and get a good feel for just how complicated an issue you are seeking to resolve. You've made some accusations that certain people are breaking or bending the law, and I think those accusations are unfair (kind way of saying wrong). It's not going to be a straight-forward or easy fight, I wish you luck but think you are jousting with a wind-mill.
14Freedom
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:28 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Hi Dave,
I do appreciate the back and forth...
Vessels under US flag can be "privately" owned yet available for charter. 6 pack vessels are a starter, then for 12 pax, documented /registered as "coastal" for passenger carrying, then move to 49 pax, T-vessels,etc. That is how so many yachts finally got by the 6 pack rule (because of STCW) and could charter with 12 passengers.
I've gotten certified, worked on, as well as owned USCG certified passenger carrying vessel, from 14-49 passengers, from 24 to 80 feet. I am aware of the laws governing charter in the US but those laws are also subject to change/interpretation by you local MSO. I've seen 80' yachts get a certificate for 65 pax...and that was a Roamer that went through MSO Miami and also MSO Boston. I looked at buying a 70' Broward certified for 55 plus crew.
SOLAS is the only org that the US recognizes??? For charter yachts???
I recognize that it is the owners cash; it is also the owners prerogative to flag it wherever they want. It is also his decision whether to take a higher road and pay where it is owned.
By the way, my brother-in-law just took delivery of his new 64' Nordhaven (his second) and did the right thing. He made his $$$ in the US, is a US citizen, and paid his taxes...and he hired US crew. (too bad we don't get along!)
I may be barking up the wrong tree, but please do not patronize me. There are a ton of other crew who feel and are  subject to the same discrimination. Yeah, I'll buck up, but I won't shut up until this gets resolved - one way or the other.
I always appreciate knowing where I stand and in that no one knows where they stand. We are at the whim of whomever happens to be hiring.
And that is the crux of this matter...hiring practices by yachts, crew agents, etc. that are discriminatory.
Best Regards,
Dan



Chief
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:38 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


Capt. Dave wrote:                                                                                                                   

 

"To register a US flagged vessel under a commercial registry (making it a commercial vessel under the law) it has to be SOLAS because the US does not recognize any other commercial registry."                                                                                                          

 

Would you mind telling us where you got that bit of information?                                     

 

"I have not done the homework… “                                                                                      

 

That at least is accurate.                                                                                                         

 

 


14Freedom
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 12:48 AM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


One last one,Moderator,
If you are going to quote me in you headline, note in the original paragraph INDUSTRY was in quotes. You've taken license and in the original no pun was intended or punctuation errors made.
ATB-

Capt.Dave
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:09 AM
Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 20


Capt. Dave wrote: "To register a US flagged vessel under a commercial registry (making it a commercial vessel under the law) it has to be SOLAS because the US does not recognize any other commercial registry."_____________ Chief Replied: “Would you mind telling us where you got that bit of information?”____________ From the bosses' attorney when the boss got bent out of shape about not being able to charter in the Med if he flagged the boat US. And I should have clarified that the US only recognizes a SOLAS commercial certification for a US flag vessel, it does not dispute an MCA-LYC commercial registration on a red-ensign vessel. Again, I do not claim to be an attorney, nor am I the right person to be explaining all of this, my point is that this is an old issue deeply burried in all kinds of international legal blockades and loopholes - not a simple matter of Americans should be required to hire Americans. If I am wrong in my understanding about the rules regarding commercial registration of US flag vessels, then I won't break down and cry if I am credibly corrected. It's really not the point of this discussion anyway.
Chief
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:37 AM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


“You cannot fly a US Flag and have say an MCA commercial registry. MCA registries are not recognized by the US.” Please tell me your captain title is honorary! A vessel can only be registered in one country at a time, so no, it is not legal to fly a US and a foreign flag. That should be pretty basic stuff for a bestriped Son of Magellan. SOLAS is a very broad treaty and parts of it apply to nearly every vessel that floats in international service. What captain’s license is that again? I guess the reason the US doesn’t recognize an MCA registered vessel is because there is no such thing. MCA is not a flag state any more than the USCG is a flag state. Did your captain’s license test have a question about flag states on it? And that bit about the US not recognizing any other commercial registry ...!? All those thousands of ships that enter US ports every day must be sneaking in without the CG noticing I guess, maybe they take down their flags when get close to land. What captain license is that again? I really don't meant to be so sarcastic - OK I lied - but seriously, how can a "captain" be so clueless?
Capt.Dave
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 3:38 AM
Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 20


You are misreading what I said. Of course the MCA is not a flag state, but it did write it's own commercial safety code for the benefit of pleasure vessels (the MCA LYC) and will issue a more leaniant commercial registration for pleasure vessels registered to red-ensign countries which is one reason why some American owners go with a red-flag. Of course the US recognizes safety codes of other nations, but only on vessels registered to those nations, not abaord a US flagged vessel. There is no equivalent of LYC for US flag yachts. I am not a lawyer and obviously not the one to explain the nuances of commercial registration- so forget about that example. The only point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of reasons why an American yacht owner would go with a foreign registry and that the reasons get far more complicated than the Jones Act, taxes and wanting to hire non-Americans. The fact is that yacht owners have to consider the legislation in the countries they will visit as well as that of their home nation when they choose a flag ( and in some cases crew) for their yacht.
14Freedom
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 3:57 AM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


This has gotten way off topic...
But when was the last time you or any yacht have been to Bikini?...or to the Marshall Islands? Does Bikini even have facilities for yachts? Don't know but perhaps my lawyer does.
GO SOX!
ATB- and again I wish to all who toil,
Best Regards,
Dan

Anonymous
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 4:02 AM

Why Your "Cause" is Worthless:

By Anonymous...because if I'm honest about who I am...big bad Pastey is going to 'deweeet' me [voice cracking].

 

Wow. Where in the hell were you guys when I "needed" you when I had posts like these in this thread riddled all over this forum.  You need more than two or three to "stand up", Cap.

As I've said, You need to gather a Group, a petition, hell -  a coalition. You need to form [already].

Now -  why is it that every so often there are a few "freaky nuts" like me complaining about the same shezz in this industry? Hmm? Why so?  Same o'l poor suckers waiting to be pounced and 'destroyed' by the same pathetic creeps like...huh, shutter, Nor-A!  And...shutter..."SAX" GROUP... Camper and Fickelson.

Anyway,  this is because of: [cue me yelling at the top of my lungs]  No matter what has been said about discrimnation and illegal immigration... Your rants and complaints fall on deaf ears. They are WORRRRTHLESSSSSSS. (echo) 

Your words are meaningless on forums like these...to the EEOC....to ICE...Coast Guard.....CNN....President Obama...and that Napalatano something idiot, etc. Alright, that was a little facetious...maybe not entirely meaningless. 

One of the major reasons why these complaints have continued to fall on deaf ears is because you sir or mam are NOT BRITISHY.....you're not Northern European...Swedish enough...or Flemish enough.  Your [American] views or opinions about these issues do not matter to these Americans at the top of this industry or illegal aliens rakin in the American dough for that matter.  So, why should they even bother to read your "rants"?  Why should these pathetic owners, charter brokers, and  recruiters care as well?   By the way, most on this forum who subscribe to DW and other yacht zines are typically non American.  Americans are too dimwitted and "auss" kissing to care? And for who? For..them?? Oh right, for a JOB. ANY JOB. You have to got to be kidding me. I mean, I'm not talking gibberish here.

 

 

 

The ball is in *their* court..not Yours.  Even if it's or was your $$$. Did you understand that, 14Freedom and Chief...Harland? Knock knock?

I'm not trying to disparage you, especially those [two or three for this year] who may share the same passion as I do about this infesting problem going on for far too long - I'zz just tryin to get you American yachties to realize and  F-O-C-U-S on why you need to form a group of petitioners...maybe to the point of getting someone to go to Congress if that is even possible. 

And while you're at it, why not contact CNN?  [http://cnn.com/feedback] Hell, even Fox News.

Contact Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs...even if he could give a rat's 'auss' since he cares for Anglo-Saxon illegal aliens too much...believe me, I've emailed and called this guy a lot...if only this was about Haitan and Cuban yachties breaking US law- I mean, dang.  Dobbs would be on this thing like "white" on Sidney Poitier.

How about making  a Youtube video or presentation in order to share your concerns...I said --how about makeing YOUTUBE videos??  Video taping those yachties who hire illegal aliens ...or those who are dayworking illegally on yachts while 'frolicking' around.  SHOW IT TO THE WORLD.  

You can meta tag under "yachties", "YACHTS" "MEGAYACHTS", "American yacht owners" "American Charter Guests".  The more the better.  Speaking of which, direct your vids/petition/whatever you do to AMERICAN CHARTER GUESTS. They comprise most of the charter market in the Caribbean...the biggest chunk of the yachting industry. Find a way to reach out to American charter guests, tell them what is happening...tell them to look for American flag yachts to charter instead..making it appeasing...costs compare, etc. 

Perhaps that in itself can pursuay lazy and greedy American yacht owners who confuse "Britishy" with "Quality"...for some trumped up reason...to do the right thing once and for all and change their flag to American. 

***And do this for yourself (pay attention now):  try not to mull over how over zealous, unstable, or - awww - naive you may--WILL-- come across to a bunch of these creeps including other Americans who love to portray people as such in order to validate thier position ...and their $$$. Focus on a way to get people's attention...and to get people to act.  If you focus too much on what people or even your friends will think of you for trying to counteract these issues, you WILL lose in trying to help resolve this issue. I hope you can understand what I'm saying in plain terms.  

I have to admit that I, myself, don't have much clout to make a tiny dent. At least not at this time.

But those of you who have some overall stability in your life..i.e, your financial life, need to share your time in helping to resolve this intolerable issue. Do it out of respect for your country and other Americans, even if you don't like some of them. If South Africans can network and tolerate thier own goof balls (even the ones who don't 'work' and lie like crap on their CVs), so can Americans.  

So yeah-- Fight the Power. Already. Okay? Did you get that? Hello?  


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 4:29 AM

Btw, these recruiters aren't even trying to cover up their own fraudulent practices.  They really need to be caught in the act.

 

Another issue that I've experienced is about Crew Houses harboring and AIDING illegal aliens receiving daywork..so that the Crew House owners can get their rent..this is how they make their money.  Some crew houses and Lauderdale based hotels are owned by English internationals who lie about their ownership and residency. Anybody else think about how much Illegal aliens from the past have grown and thrived to the point of living in South Florida and creating thier own business here? How does it make you feel btw?

 

 You know who some of them are. I'm not allowed to annotate names, the media and ICE needs to be pounded with this kind of information.


14Freedom
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 4:59 AM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Hey to All,
Here is what I said to the EEOC and personal responses to that complaint. Other names deleted for personal reasons.

From: info@eeoc.gov
To: dlongyear@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 00:41:16 -0500
Subject: Sex Discrimination [Incident:091007-000001]

.ExternalClass td.ecxheader {;} .ExternalClass td.ecxtext {padding-left:4px;padding-right:4px;} .ExternalClass td.ecxlabel {;} .ExternalClass td.ecxdata {;} Sex Discrimination
   Response Thank you for your e-mailing the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Please be advised that you have either 180 or 300 days to file a charge from the day you knew about the job action taken or to be taken against you. The number of days you have mostly depends on whether the company is located in a place where there is a state agency that has similar laws as ours. There may be other reasons such as the particular county involved or the type of discrimination being complained about. If you have any questions about your time limits for filing a charge, you may visit our website at https://apps.eeoc.gov/eas/. p>

 Discussion Thread  Customer (Daniel Longyear)10/07/2009 12:41 AM Good Day,

I am a certified, licensed and qualified 47 year old male in the yachting industry. (please see attached).

After 300+ resumes' over the past year and through several crew agencies, I have been discriminated against in a number of ways. Crew agencies, based in Florida, have actually said I was not the right sex for a position in writing. I am not the right age, in writing. I am not qualified for a deck position, in writing.

There is something inherently wrong with this industry. You need to look into it to see what I have to say is correct and right.

Please look at Neptune Group (daywork123@.com), Luxury Yacht Group ( www.luxyachts.com ), Crew 4 Crew (www.crew4crew.net) and Crew Unlimited (www.crewunlimited.com). That is just a starter...

I am sick and tired of being US crew and jobs being advertised and taken by others based on sex, age and country of origin. It is about time the US Government take a stance on this issue and provide clear and decisive laws for crew agencies and "foreign" flagged vessels to live by. The Jones Act was put in place for a reason...

I look forward to your reply,

Daniel Longyear



_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

==================== application File Attachment ====================
Daniel Longyear CV.doc, 64000 bytes, added to incident

==================== application File Attachment ====================
reference list.doc, 28160 bytes, added to incident      Question Reference #091007-000001 Date Created: 10/07/2009 12:41 AM Last Updated: 10/07/2009 12:41 AM Status: Open Employer Zip Code: 
 
RESPONSE:

EEOC:
Just some more info by a contact in the "Yachting" industry.
You must see www.dockwalk.com and read the posts RE: the EEOC is looking. Also look at any posts RE: B1/B2 Visas
Best Regards,
Dan

Hopefully we can touch base again, at least over email, in the future about creating some type of petition...if that can ever be possible. The problems really lies in the fact that many American yachties who are still "here" may not be terribley interested in putting things to action.
 
 
I can tell you that my experience with the EEOC has basically been this [pretty much in order]:
In Nov of 2007, I was told be a crew agency that I would not be represented by them. The recruiter told me that she could not contact any of my refs, then later admitted that she got a few positive ones.  Around that time, the crew agency owner finally admitted that she was upset about my Triton Article "Unkind to Womankind" which briefly mentions the crew and cpt.  She's done business with this cpt, so basically I believe that was the reason why I never got work from this agency again. I also later learned that the agency didn't like the fact that I expected to get the rest of my wages --even if I was ready to file a suit or contact the owner, which IS not something we ever really want to do.
 
A few months before, [this one has more than 15 employees]  had never offered me a job after two interviews, albeit seemed positive.
Right before my second interview, I heard one crew agent tell another that she d id not have any good candidates since Americans can't get along with international crew. 
 
After my experience with crew agency owner in Nov of 2007, I immediately started an app for a EEOC claim, after which, I received an app in the mail and sent documents and saved emails to the EEOC of Miami. My claim was basically about "retaliation" and "nationality discrimination".
 
Months later, the EEOC of Miami sent my claim the FL State Commission, where I had to fill out more docs, answer more questions, and send in faxes over certain accounts/actions that I witnessed by these agencies.  I felt like I was given the run around in the next few months.  There was a lady by the name of Linda Mathis at the Commission who really didn't seem all that interested or professional over this matter. Later, I found out that a mediation letter was sent to me and the other parties involved, yet the commission apparently sent my mediation letter to the wrong address. I didn't find this out for another year, all the while I was emailing Linda Mathis every few months inquiring about the status of this claim to which she NEVER responded back except once, when she apologized for not contacting me sooner, this after of course was when I finally emailed her a complaint about not receiving any correspondence from her or the FLC, I even threaten to let her director know about my concerns over this matter.  Finally, earlier th is year, I received a letter from the FLC saying that my case was closed, without reason.
 
 Btw, the first agency [the one where the owner didn't like my Triton article] was considered not liable due to the number of employees. The other agency [more than 15 employees, world wide] basically accused me [in a response to  FLC] of only wanting to work in the industry to make money since I mentioned wanting to travel and save money in the first interview that I had with a recruiter, who btw, never worked in the biz herself. 
 
Hope this made some sense.  Let me know if you have any other questions, and I hope to stay in touch.  Good luck on your quest, I really hope you can do something for yourself and other Americans in the biz...something really needs to happen. Take care,

So now I am known to the "industry"...come and get it because I am ready to dish it out. Thanks Harland, we need to have a beer sometime...with the Chief!

Still hoping all who toil in this LOVE IT!

Chief
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 12:20 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


" ...when was the last time you or any yacht have been to Bikini?...or to the Marshall Islands?" As long as we are off-topic, what has that got to do with anything? How many charter yachts have you ever seen that are not flying the flag of an open registry?
Henning
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:11 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


The reason all this is tolerated is the greater economic picture. Crew of the yacht is chump change. Docking, supply and refit of the yachts brings hundreds of millions of dollars into the US economy every year, much of it in SoFla. It's a very large industry that employs 20 times the personel ashore as it does on the vessels. That's why these things are allowed to happen. As for me, I'm a US captain employed by Aussies to run a Cayman flagged vessel. Oh, a B1/B2 visa is not a tourist visa, it is a business visa, and that's what ships crew do, they tend to the interests of a foreign business. True, they shouldn't be looking for work in FtL, but while they are, they are sinking money into the local economy in crew houses and Waxy's.... and since they go to work on foreign flag vessels, they aren't drawing money out of the US economy. Even when they find employment, they still end up putting a lot of money back into the local economy.. If someone doesn't like the way crew agents do things, well, don't use them. In over 20 years, I have gotten one job from a crew agent, Sportable Crew, but I have been signed up with them all. I always seem to find work on my own and I'm a 40+ American male. To the OP, if you've been in this business for 20 years and you can't get any work and agents are telling you no, what kind of reputation and position do you have? Sometimes we need to look inside ourselves for the source of "injustices". You might be getting the easy to hear excuses because nobody likes saying to your face "I can't put you forward because you're an idiot or you have the reputation for being a real a$$-le or all your references say you're incompetent". At 20 years in, you should have enough connections of youyr own to keep you working. Why don't you? Crew agents are typically for newbies and freelance chefs, stews and deckhands. What is your position that you're still relying on agents after 20 years?
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:13 PM
Marshall Islands (including Bikini) are a US protectorate under the Compact of Free Association and an "associate state" of the US.
Chief
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 1:40 PM
Joined: 02/06/2008
Posts: 341


"Marshall Islands (including Bikini) are (is) a US protectorate ..."

 

OK, my car is black. What does that have to do with anything?

 

What percentager of the charter yacht fleet is NOT flagged with an open registry? Posters here are throwing around the MI like it's a dirty flag for some reason when it is simply another open registry just like all the others that created a yacht registry to generate more business.  


14Freedom
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 3:35 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


It is all OK...I now sell Smith & Wesson .
ATB-
Dan

14Freedom
Posted: Friday, October 9, 2009 5:12 PM
Joined: 16/04/2009
Posts: 155


Henning wrote:
The reason all this is tolerated is the greater economic picture. Crew of the yacht is chump change.

 To the OP, if you've been in this business for 20 years and you can't get any work and agents are telling you no, what kind of reputation and position do you have? Sometimes we need to look inside ourselves for the source of "injustices". You might be getting the easy to hear excuses because nobody likes saying to your face "I can't put you forward because you're an idiot or you have the reputation for being a real a$$-le or all your references say you're incompetent".


Economics 101: without jobs ie: salaries there is no economic activity.

Please contact me Henning, you can find my E and phone in other posts. I would love to send you my cover letter, resume' and references. You can check them and see what they have to say about me personally and professionally.

It's actually pretty funny because LuxYachts contacted a reference of mine YESTERDAY and she has been a listed reference with them since 2003!



Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 2:00 AM
This forum is turning in ever decreasing circles. Life is not fair and neither is yachting. What brought me into this business will eventually repel me, because the Peter Pan Lifestyle and Shadowy Gray Line that enables yachting to evade convention, override reality, common sense and safety regularly astounds me. Discrimination, immigration, un-policed labor laws and the less than ethical behavior commonly found in this business are aspects of yachting I have learnt to tolerate. My current employer does not believe in weekends, never pays retail and prefers foreign crew because they are cheap and plentiful. I am an American and we have been regularly boarded by the USCG, Immigration and Customs. On each boarding the B1/B2 was accepted as a valid visa for yacht crew on a Cayman Yacht. We are in the Shipyard now and no authority ever checks our day workers against the crew list. As an American does this bother me? YES Can I improve my situation by calling immigration? NO
Henning
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:32 AM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


"It's actually pretty funny because LuxYachts contacted a reference of mine YESTERDAY and she has been a listed reference with them since 2003!" As I said here and elsewhere, I consider most crew agents nearly useless, especially at the capt level Luxyachts fits that description IMO quite well. There are agents who can't even bother to call back when I've tried to respond to a position they are needing to fill. Then they want to take up my time confirming a written reference I've generated for someone else. Most crew agents are gals who either wanted to have kids (or got pregnant) or who couldn't hack it in the business on boats where actually working cut into their drinking time, but still wanted to milk money out of the industry. Send your CV on to caphenning@yahoo.com, I'm collecting them for a relief position right now anyway.
rodsteel
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:16 AM
Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 277


Gentlemen (and it seems that is all who have been posting ;o),

 

Why don't you put the shoe on the other foot? What would you think if you were the owner? (I happen to be a little bit Libertarian and resent being told how I can and cannot run my own "small" business).

Most yachts fall into the small business category. Here is a googled section of the applicable rules:

"Numerous federal, state and local laws prohibit discrimination in employment, and those laws apply to every phase of the employment relationship, including hiring.

If you employ only a handful of people - usually, fewer than four -- then you generally don't have to worry about these laws.

If you employ four or more people, however, you should keep these anti-discrimination laws in mind during every phase of the hiring process, from placing the help-wanted ad to asking questions during an interview to selecting your new employee.

The federal laws, which apply to employers in all 50 states, generally prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, gender, pregnancy, national origin, religion, disability and age (if the person is older than 40). If you are an employer with at least 15 employees, you must follow these federal laws (although the prohibition against age discrimination only applies to employers with 20 or more employees)."

http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/employment-employer/employment-employer-hiring/employment-employer-hiring-discrimination-rules.html

 

Regards,

 

Rod

 


Luxyachts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 3:39 AM
Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 8


Dear Mr. Longyear, I am going to post a public rebuttal to your issue on behalf of my company Luxury Yacht Group as you list my firm in your complaint to the EEOC. - EEOC compliance for recruitment agencies is a requirement if the employer, to whom they provide candidates, must comply with those rules. - We have placed crew on over 4,000 luxury yachts and not a single yacht to which we have provided crew requires EEOC compliance. - Despite the fact that we don't have to comply with EEOC rules we train our staff regularly and operate to EEOC guidelines (including our office in France) and when my staff make a mistake they face very harsh disciplinary action and termination. - We are on track in 2009 to find 2,000 crew jobs. Those crew are from very diverse cultural, ethnic, religious and national backgrounds. - We have paid tens of thousands of dollars to employment lawyers to guide us as to the best practices and have built systems that, to the best of our ability, gives fair access to every candidate to be judged on a non-discriminatory basis. - We do not make the hiring decisions. We give employers access to the most qualified candidates and the employer makes the hiring decision. - Luxury Yacht Group is proactive in the development of minorities within this industry. - As a result of years of hard work and charitable donation I am scheduled to receive an award in November from the government of Jamaica recognizing my company's efforts to recruit seafarers from the Caribbean. - The most protected nationality for jobs that we receive is American. A very large number of our job orders are for Americans only...the only nationality that our system allows to protect in this manner. - On the day that you made this post you logged into our system and declined interest in thirteen jobs that matched your objectives. I am very dissapointed at the path that you have chosen to promote your failure to find work and am perplexed by what you can expect to achieve by doing so in this manner. I would be more than happy to meet with you personally or talk on the phone and review a more productive sales approach to finding employment. Having reviewed your resume I can see many ways in which your resume can be adjusted to present your assets in a more productive manner than being known for EEOC complaints and negative forum posts. Yours sincerely, Rupert Connor President Luxury Yacht Group LLC rc@luxyachts.com
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 4:34 AM
Post removed by moderator. We want to encourage lively discussion and this is clearly a sensitive subject but please don't resort to making personal attacks. Please refer to our forum guidelines.



ablonde
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 5:12 AM
Joined: 24/08/2008
Posts: 8


I understand all the frustrations voiced here, I myself have experienced discrimination many times over something I have no control over! What could that be? My. Hair. Color. Yes, it's true, I have been discriminated against because I am a blonde! Gasp, shock, dismay, yes it's all true. The curtains match the carpet and all my life I have suffered, over and over, and over again. If I am blonde and attractive I must not be very intelligent, or at least that is what so many people in this "industry" think. Do I have to dye my hair another color to get some respect in this "industry"? But now I see the tide may have changed, or at least according to the anonymous commenter above, where he claims to have seen ads for crew that stipulate "Blondes only." Finally I have an edge, but wait, I"m over 40, maybe not skinny enough, damn.
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 5:20 AM

just because my post seems a tad agressive, doesn't mean I'm a guy. I'm a pissed off Stew, thank you very much.

and btw, it might not be your hair...it might be your age, nationality, or your bubbly personality. not trying to be smart, if you're too positive and too 'american' [which you may not be], you could be discriminated against. just sayin.


cdhezel
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 5:34 AM
Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 20


why bother replying to this crap.... sorry guys and gals but lets look at this objectively, U.S owner register thier boats offshore for the same bloody reasons European, scandinavian, Australaisain, and most othe owners do, or do yo think that Cayman, Luxembourg, grenadine, and I.O.M have a couple of hundred thousand "wealth boat owning residents" I also hate with a passion discrimination, but when you bleat about legslating and suing for your rights you are emphisising one of the principal reasons that put people off hiring North Americans, I know plenty of Kiwi's Aussies etc that get turned down for jobs, but they persist "quietly" The philosophy of life at sea is that you cannot adapt your enviroment to your whims, but you can change your attiude, may be a damned good first step ... get the chip off your shoulder..
Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:49 AM
Good advice from cdhezel....tone down the aggressive nature of this thread. I'm sure the original poster is frustrated with his bad luck at securing work but his present attitude will never help him forward. I agree that crew agents are a less than perfect way to find work, but as was pointed out earlier in this thread, the original poster has 20 years in the business and should have been aware of this reality years ago. As far as Ruperts statement, a crew agents mission is simply to ....." give employers access to the most qualified candidates and the employer makes the hiring decision. " This is correct and hopefully this is how the system works. I have not dealt with Ruperts company LYG but in the past when dealing with agents, as captain , Ive been disappointed with the candidates put forward. Many times only a single resume would be put forward or else the candidates were simply not what I was looking for. I generally have a skeptical view of the ability of crew agents to interpret my needs. Of course you could say that I, as captain , fail to properly communicate my requirements to the agent, perhaps. Another troublesome aspect of crew agents is that they seem to pass the best positions back and forth to their mates. Their social circle of Golf partners, drinking buddies, past crew or what ever. Rupert, at Luxury Yacht Group , how do you keep this nepotism from clouding the judgment of your recruiters. ?
Luxyachts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:45 AM
Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 8


Well worded CD. I do not reply to anonymous posts so if the person above wishes to contact me directly I'd be happy to explain the process directly.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 4:00 AM

I want every American yacht owner [including the sleazy ones who suck up to Britishy accents] sniffing around this board to read this post!

 

 

 If people were "quiet" in thier trials and  tribulations that they face, I don't believe much in life would be resolved. I don't believe healthy changes would come to fruition as promptly as many have in the past. Yes, we have to pick our own battles, but please don't suggest to me to be "quiet" or that my posts are "crap".  Your attitude is just another ignorant and one sided response that I get all the time.

I've dealt with your ilk for years in this industry, it's easy for those who haven't been through much in life or an industry to tell someone else to "tone" it down over calling out fraudulent deeds...i.e., when it's about jobs in My own country...not Yours. 

My point still remains the same about how crew agencies/houses are deliberately aiding illegal aliens in facilitating connections and jobs for the soul purpose of American dollars..and well to stay super connected themselves.  It has come to the point that I, myself, am seeing more English international business owners right here in S. Florida.  That [edited by moderator] for example, is owned by a SA and his sister who first started working in the Carib and the states...illegally.   

So needless to say, I'm tired of seeing these fat and happy SAs, Brits, and Aussies/Kiwis selling yachts as brokers, owning their business in the states by now, or still driving yachts while living in Florida all the while making a nice little living and putting down and taking our own culture for granted.  And all the while, those wholesome, hard working folks like myself from the states have barely been given a chance at a decent career path in this industry.....freelancing? Give me a break.

I'm still driving an old car from grad school. Any asset that I own such as all my pure gold that I invested while in grad school is GONE...for the sake of survival.   If I did not face this type of discrimination, I believe I could have made enough money to buy a place to live and pay off much of my student loans. Maybe I would have seen more of the Carib or NE US during the summer season. But instead of more people like myself from the states, there are  a bunch of  foreign "imby" goof balls and alchohol guzzling drug addicts  buying their first house after one or two years of being a stews/deckhands/chefs/cpts. Many of these derelects have no college education to boot...while pretending to know how to cook gourmet foods and lying on their CVs. I mean, Jesus. What is going on in the minds of those who run this industry??  Besides $$ that is.

I would really appreciate if other Americans would stop being quiet and tell those disgusting yacht owners to wise up and help their own out, even if it KILLS thier pathetic egos or their "wallet" via payroll taxes. They fail to see how ignorant they think of themselves and  their "employees".

 I can't believe the French and the Italians haven't yet gone ape sh*t about this type of illegal immigration by SAs and Aussies/Kiwis in France and other nearby ports in Europe.  The hell's wrong with the French? They're usually the first to get angry and start spray painting yachts.  Maybe it's because there's too many carbs in their diet.    


Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 7:34 AM
Dear [edited by moderator]... sorry Anon

Reading through your post is like panning for fools gold. You are clearly a jealous, small minded tool. May i suggest that you have failed to get on this industry because you have been enjoying too much of the 'american culture' and can't fit in your uniform for more than a season? The joy of this industry is the multitude of nationalities you have the pleasure to work with and for. Do you own a passport by the way? And let me guess.. you voted for Bush. [edited by moderator] I hope that the next phrase that rolls off your tongue is "Do you want fries with that....?"

Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:22 AM
The comments and childlike behavior on this post is a prime example why you find so few fellow Americans in the Yachting industry. There is no room for a whiney little Bi#@h on any vessel that sails the highs seas being it Commercial or Private. But thank you, because your protests have made no real progress in helping you find a job, but have made it harder for a young professional like me trying to fight to keep our American reputation one that is sought after. One more thing! I am regularly discriminated as being an American but you will not find me crying about it to government authorities. You will find me busting my ass trying to prove that there are a few good american seeds out there!
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:54 AM
Yes indeed, this thread is out of control.... to the most aggrieved poster......Be careful what you wish for. Just 20 minutes ago, over here in Europe, a young American guy appeared behind the boat looking for day work. Like all the young guys, he needs to pay his crew house, bar , bill while hanging out seeking a ride across the Atlantic. . Looked like a nice fellow so Ive got him polishing Stainless steel on deck. If he gets thru the acres of ss in a workman like fashion, Ill walk him down to a yacht with one of those evil SA captains , who mentioned to me last week that he needed an extra deckie for the crossing and introduce him. Now, in your world what I have just done is illegal and I'm sure it is, but....WHO CARES.... this is how the entire worldwide yacht scene works. Stop with your ill conceived campaign.
Henning
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 3:06 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


Yeah, it gets me to, and I'm an American, I'm even a naturalized American, so I'm one by my own choice. But, I'm also a professional seaman. I've been at this for over 20 years in all branches of the industry. Even sailed a hitch on a tanker as an AB forming part of the navigational watch. In all other sectors of the industry, the fraternity of the sea is much stronger than in yachting. Maybe it is just the annonymity of the internet and the yachties on it that amplifies it, but I sense the same animosities live and in person around the "Yachting Meccas". A professional seaman doesn't begrudge anyone their job and helps another out when on his home turf. Thing about yachting is that there's so many "drive by yachties". The ones that "just want to do this for a year or two and make some quick cash". The backpackers of the maritime industry. They are at the root of crewing problems because they are typically sponges. The job is just a job that supports a party life. The only real problem I have with them is that I don't get any return on personal time and training investment and effort that I put into them, not to mention that them making $10,000+ errors in paint, varnish, whatever it is they break due to inexperience and lack of sealegs, is not uncommon either. They also fill jobs at a lower pay rate than a more experienced non officer trying to make a professional career out of it which I feel is the heart of this animosity. We could cure this issue by adopting minimum safe manning standards through all tonnages which would include an AB (Able Bodied seaman, a tested credentialed rating that also requires limited sea service, typically 120 days underway) rating on vessels that would take 2 deckhands. I'd say over 100' should have a minumum deck compliment of 2 LICENSED officers and 2 deckies. Deckie could also double as stew workload dependent. It works out well all around, especially on safety since it gives me someone else I am officially allowed put on the helm unsupervised. BTW, pet peeve of mine, if you don't hold a license for the vessel size and occupation, you are not a Mate. Please do not respond when I advertise for a Mate. I also advise you not to network as a Mate because it makes it look like you are either inexperienced and/or stupid, or you are full of s--t. Either way, it does not stand in your favor. Mate, is a licensed officer position. Seamen have always been under the immigrations radar. It is a somewhat accepted thing. I have worked on my American license all over the world on many different flags including German, Belgian, Netherlands, Cayman, US, Marshal Islands, Vanuatu, Lyberia and UK. I have been watched out for as I have watched out for others as all professional seamen do, because honestly, we just can't risk bad karma. Yo always try to keep good people in the field regardless where they are from because even though there's a lot of people in the business, only about 20% of them are really good, and you never know when you're gonna need one of them, so the more we keep around, the better off we as professional captains are. We also hold a duty to train them up as well in all aspects including boat handling.
TiffanyS
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 3:13 PM
Joined: 21/08/2008
Posts: 30


I cannot believe this topic is so far off course. It's pretty sad that everyone is ASSUMING that the only reasons why a captain or owner would specifically request one gender or nationality over another is always about money or discrimination. I am assuming that everyone reading this thread has actually worked on a boat. Sometimes you HAVE to hire a female chef because the chef has to share a cabin with another female. Or you have to hire only a male deckhand because he has to share a cabin with a male engineer. Sometimes captains prefer to have crew of the same nationality is because the crew all have to get along, and just by reading this forum, you can tell that it can be harder for one crew member of a different nationality to gel with a crew made up of people of another. Yachting is not a 9-5 job, because you have to all live together and get along. You have to be honest about your crew and be particular about who comes on board to control the chaos. Honestly, isn't any crew dynamic a constant excersise in controled chaos? Also, you may want to consider that you are being told that you were not hired because you are the wrong gender or the wrong nationality to spare you having to be told that they just didn't like you. It's not all some dark conspiracy.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 3:23 PM

Been there, done that. I've busted my behind as well, most of us have as Americans in this industry. Americans realize they have more to lose or less to gain rather, so many are very pedantic [like me] over their skills and labor. Americans and others don't mind working hard or long hours, therefore, the argument you make isn't very strong.

This is more about mistreatment towards federal laws and American yachties when it comes to hiring practices. Diversity is important, but it needs to be fullfilled *while respecting a country's laws*.  We don't have diversity in this industry that is welcoming to Americans...it only tolerates 'some".  So give me a break about "dynamics" and diversity. We're adults on this forum  not underaged hooligans spraying graffiti everywhere.

For you as an American to call me out as a whiner or immature, you fail to pay attention to fact that you are "quietly" busting your behind to "prove" yourself to who...a group of illegal aliens all over these yachts??  Put on your da*n thinking cap, and stop being pea brain. Wise up and realize your own reality in this industry.

And btw, just because you work hard, does not necessarily mean you'll move up or on to something better. Your nationality in this very corrupt industry will constantly give you problems, whether "I'M" here on these forums or NOT.  

 

Whether it be online or out in person, it takes action to  move people, governments...and for what it's worth in this particular industry, I believe it also takes American CHARTER GUESTS to refuse charter services from foreign flag yachts who discriminate against hiring Americans. If American yacht owners couldn't give's a rat's a** about these issues, then perhaps we need to implore American CHARTER GUESTS in some way...some how to take actions themselves by...oh, let's see, by refusing to charter Blue/Red flags other than American flagged yachts...and if there are no more yachts to choose from other than Brit or other foreign flag yachts, then maybe American CHARTER GUESTS need to take themselves and their MONEY else where.

Anyone else have any bright ideas?

 And btw, about that American looking for work or daywork in the Med, hello.. he's an illegal alien, why did you break a European nation's laws in hiring him?? I'm saying this as an American who did the same thing in the Med. I paid a heavy price looking for work, albeit I was unaware that I was  illegal at the time regardless of flags on yachts, and I would never do such a thing again, even if I enjoyed myself at times.  That is unless I had a proper visa for the appropriate yacht.  

 

I didn't vote for Bush. I'm a democrat.


Henning
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 3:32 PM
Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 1049


[Comment edited by moderator] You speak much truth Tiffany, if you aren't already a captain, you could make a good one in the future. People always ask me what the hardest part of my job is and I tell them it's keeping a happy crew. There is so much involved in putting together a crew, especially when one considers rotations and reliefs as well. For a boat that takes 6 crew, you have to put together 12 that can all integrate on not only a professional level, but a personal one too, and most people who are willing to go to sea have "quirks", and as captain often you are the final buffer. I hate having animosity on the boat, so I make sure I have all people who can pull their weight and have a good sense of humor. I am very weary of alcoholics and/or consistent drinkers because alcohol makes too many people mean.
Anonymous
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 3:59 PM

Re: "Also, you may want to consider that you are being told that you were not hired because you are the wrong gender or the wrong nationality to spare you having to be told that they just didn't like you. It's not all some dark conspiracy."

Well I can agree with that to a point, but the reasons for not "personally" liking candidates could also be intertwined with one's nationality, age, image, etc. Most yachties I've met really don't have "bad horrible" personas persay, many aren't my type as well, but if I were a  hiring crew member, I would try to be honest with myself  as to why I should hire or not hire this person.

I've worked around people I may not like, many pretentious, unembulient folks..I had to smooge here and there just to get a long, but I did appreciate team work very much like one should. You can forego on dwelling on how much you dislike someone so long as they pull their share, organized, and respectful to guests and crew.  This is not a personality contest. 

Some people may not have a very bubbley or embulient personality, that does not mean they're low quality or lack skills to do the job. I don't believe hiring officials should be seeking out frat buddies or girl friends when it comes to hiring people on yachts, it's just bad business, it goes to show how ignorant people are as supervisors. It's pretty cryptic in my opinion.

Btw, your post sort of reminded me of this book, called

    • Bright-Sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America by Barbara Ehrenreich .

    On many yachts that I've freelanced and dayworked on,  there seemed to be same sort of one dimensional type of personas among many crew out there.  I'm not saying that most crew members have come across as being "happy and shiny" per say, but I believe I've come across plenty of pretentious, "overtly" happy-go-lucky crew who didn't seem like there was much else going on in their heads. Though, I've met enough positive and peaceful folks who enjoy working on yachts and for owners...which have made my job/tasks a lot easier. If only *that* was more consistent!

     

     

     


    Anonymous
    Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 4:16 PM
    [Post deleted by moderator]
     
     Average 2 out of 5