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Defibrillators on yachts
PNW Rick
Posted: Saturday, March 7, 2009 1:08 AM
Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 5


As captain of a busy family and ocassional charter yacht, we host quite a few people aboard over the course of a season, and I was thinking a defibrillator would be a worthwhile item to have onboard.  However in renewing my CPR certificate at the local Red Cross today, the nurse teaching the course told me that AED's can not be used aboard vessels due to the motion which will interfere with it's monitoring ability.  Is that right? and if so what is the lower limit -- can they be used on a relatively large vessel in calm waters with minimal motion, or really never aboard a floating vessel?  I know a number of vessels that have them, but maybe they can only be transported to dryland for use??  I checked wikkipedia on it but no mention of the motion issue. . .


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, March 7, 2009 10:11 AM

Interesting question.  Ive been told not to bring the gear along, but then again I'm a 100 ft sailing yacht and have no medical professional as crew..  Perhaps a medical type will expound. 
  Another question concerns Stroke victim preservation.  Its a real concern, Ive had two over the years, both times we were at the dock and simply made the victim comfortable and  alerted emergency services of a possibly stroke...everything  worked out OK.  What if Im 6 hours out ?  Ive been told that by reducing the victims  body temperature and driving blood into the core  you can limit the damaging effects.  Does this imply that I sit the victim in the cockpit, wrapped in towels and water them down as I make speed to a rescue rendezvous ? 


Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:41 PM
I find this hard to believe. American Airlines has them on all their planes, a plane isn't the most stable either. I'm sure the pros will respond here and clear this up.
Anonymous
Posted: Saturday, March 7, 2009 3:32 PM
we have one on our 41 ft DeFever haven't used it but the short course I took didn't mention any problem with motion. My wife was a flight attendant with American and she used one once during a flight and saved the man's life. They gave her a letter of appreciation. Every big boat should have one they work! george 3000 ton master
Dr Ken
Posted: Sunday, March 8, 2009 4:53 PM
Joined: 08/07/2008
Posts: 22


This is an interesting question because excessive patient motion has long been recognised to affect reliability of the interpretation of the signal (from the patient's heart) by the defibrillator and could have led to delay in treatment. Modern AEDs (automatic external defibrillators) are able to distinguish between a moving platform (boat) and heart movement and are definitely to be recommended as part of the emergency gear along with grab bag and oxygen. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation is a crucial procedure to maintain viability prior to applying the defibrillator but, without an AED, the chances of recovery are minimal. This sort of material is covered in the various seafarer medical courses available in different ports - for example, see Upcoming Courses in Docktalk
Dr Ken
Posted: Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:12 PM
Joined: 08/07/2008
Posts: 22


The additional query about treating stroke victims is important as a separate issue. The range of potential disability is wide, from complete unconsciousness with incontinence and an inability to take anything by mouth and all the associated support measures like catheterisation and fluid balance, to an individual who has fleeting disturbance of speech and numbness or weakness in a limb but who makes a complete recovery within half an hour or so. Although these aspects are covered in Courses on Medical Care Onboard Ship, taking radiomedical advice would be sensible in these circumstances because each case is so different and the situation could be very challenging. 

The response to cooling is the normal physiological response to hypothermia in order to maintain the core temperature and to protect the central organs as much as possible ie brain, heart, lungs, kidneys. A stroke victim would not be cooled but would normally be kept as comfortable as possible although an unconscious person would need to be in the recovery position to protect the airway - and would need regular turning to avoid pressure sores. Not an easy prospect!


Anonymous
Posted: Sunday, March 8, 2009 6:02 PM

Hi Ken,  !!!    Thanks,  I understand what you say  about stroke response because this is what they teach me in every first aid courses that I take.   My sailing program has an 82 year old owner who  fearlessly puts to sea with us.  It is my duty to  protect the old boy with every trick in the book.

    I read about  " induced Hypothermia " for stroke victims and wonder if in my small way I can help this owner, who I have sailed with for  two hundred thousand miles  over the past 15 years , make the best of a bad scene.  It will happen, this is not theoretical.

   I'm am constantly given text book stroke response  advice and  I will follow it.....can I do anything more ?    Is there any way that I  ,as a simple sailor, can   benifit a stroke victim with  externally induced hypothermia  ?? 

"Cold comfort: Hypothermia safe, feasible for stroke patients"


Dr Ken
Posted: Monday, March 9, 2009 6:27 PM
Joined: 08/07/2008
Posts: 22


Hi - thanks for the literature reference - it looks like this line of management needs further study to evaluate significant benefit and the early study only generated a "hint of efficacy". I can see you want to leave no stone unturned but I have not been able to find a more recent definitive report so far and the technique looks pretty elaborate even were it carried out in hospital by experienced professionals.
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:30 PM
Thanks Dr. Ken, and others, for your replies -- most helpful!!
PNW Rick
Posted: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:32 PM
Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 5


Thanks Dr. Ken, and others, for your replies -- most helpful!! (Oops, thought I was logged in before. . .)
Anonymous
Posted: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:19 PM

You can always contact a manufactuer and ask them directly. Try Philips, they make the Onsite defib that talks to you. They can be reached at 800-453-6860 or www.medical.philips.com/cms

Good luck!


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:40 PM

We are Dealers for the Samaritan PAD Portable Heart Defibrillator and I have never herd of any issues with monitoring problems while in motion after all they are desighned to work in places where medical attention is not available

they are commonly used on Airplanes and Boats,

The Samaritan PAD could save the life of a loved one when you are away from immediate medical attention.

Sudden Cardiac arrest is the leading cause of death Globally.

This easy to opperate defribillator was specifically designed for Marine Use.

Now you can have piece of mind when you are out of the Water.

Foe more information and to purchase  please email me at joer@beardmarine.com

We are offering special discounts right now to help with our economy

See our display unit at the upcomming Palm Beach Boat Show

List Price is $1618.36

Our special is $ 1149.00


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:01 PM

"Sudden Cardiac arrest is the leading cause of death Globally."   Hmmmm  ? Think this guy is selling something.    

 Figures from the World Health Organisation show that heart disease is the leading cause of death worldwide.

 


Anonymous
Posted: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:24 PM
Anonymous wrote:

"Sudden Cardiac arrest is the leading cause of death Globally."   Hmmmm  ? Think this guy is selling something.    

 Figures from the World Health Organisation show that heart disease is the leading cause of death worldwide.

   could that not lead to Cardiac Arrest?



Joe R
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:04 PM
Joined: 02/12/2008
Posts: 11


Trying to sell something?

Thats what I do

There would be no better feeling for me than to know I sold someone an Instrument  that saved a persons life!

 


Anonymous
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:40 PM

Every salesman tries to get away with it.   The yacht is virtually maintenence free and requires no crew !!!!!!

Tell these guys.        Fair Trade Commission statute, deceptive advertising, fraud, deception, fraud penalties,. Unfair methods of competition unlawful; ...

Reword your sales pitch...    Cardiac arrest is a leading cause of death.


 


Joe R
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:37 PM
Joined: 02/12/2008
Posts: 11


Sudden cardiac death (also called sudden arrest) is death resulting from an abrupt loss of heart function (cardiac arrest). The victim may or may not have diagnosed heart disease. The time and mode of death are unexpected. It occurs within minutes after symptoms appear. The most common underlying reason for patients to die suddenly from cardiac arrest is coronary heart disease (fatty buildups in the arteries that supply blood to the heart muscle).


Joe R
Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:50 PM
Joined: 02/12/2008
Posts: 11


The Samaritan PAD: 
safety and security for 
on-the-go people
 

With everyday people in mind, the Samaritan

Ease of use makes the Samaritan PAD the ideal defibrillator for recreational and professional boaters. A status indicator will blink letting you know the Samaritan® PAD is ready for use. The Pad-Pak™ defibrillation pads speed up the rescue by reducing the number of steps required. Just open the package and apply the pads.

The Samaritan PAD is built on many years of research and development and patented technology. The Samaritan PAD uses SCOPE™ Biphasic technology (a low-energy waveform that adjusts for the differences in each person’s physical make-up) to deliver optimal defibrillation to every patient.

The Samaritan PAD ships standard with all the items you need to put your device immediately in service. No extras items to purchase. The standard package includes:

  • Samaritan PAD: automated external defibrillator
  • Carry case: holds Samaritan PAD, spare Pad-Pak and prep-kit
  • 2 Pad-Paks: each Pad-Pak includes a set of defibrillation pads and a 6-hour battery capable of delivering more than 30 shocks
  • Contact joer@beardmarine.com

 
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